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  #16  
Old Jul 3, '07, 10:08 pm
WestonGrant WestonGrant is offline
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Mark Wyatt,

Come on. You were asked if Sungenis was turned down by his bishop. And you were asked if there was any problem. You were being very misleading at least and led me to think everything was fine and that it was on its way.

And your analogy doesn't fly with me. You don't go around telling everyone the engagement is in process with a girl when she just shot you down.

If his own bishop turned him down then what makes you think everything is going to be fine with the other one? If I understand the letter right, Dr. Sungenis has to tell the other bishop he was turned down by his own bishop. And the article says his diocese hasn't heard anything about an appeal. I hope he told the other bishop he was turned down.


The imprimatur was used like a marketing tool and you've been doing commercials for him here. It doesn't look too good.

Listen, I like his books, but come on.
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  #17  
Old Jul 3, '07, 10:34 pm
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
Mark Wyatt,

Come on. You were asked if Sungenis was turned down by his bishop. And you were asked if there was any problem. You were being very misleading at least and led me to think everything was fine and that it was on its way.

And your analogy doesn't fly with me. You don't go around telling everyone the engagement is in process with a girl when she just shot you down.

If his own bishop turned him down then what makes you think everything is going to be fine with the other one? If I understand the letter right, Dr. Sungenis has to tell the other bishop he was turned down by his own bishop. And the article says his diocese hasn't heard anything about an appeal. I hope he told the other bishop he was turned down.


The imprimatur was used like a marketing tool and you've been doing commercials for him here. It doesn't look too good.

Listen, I like his books, but come on.
I was quite clear that it did not have an imprimatur. I also stated he is in the process of getting one. Both are true. Sometimes getting rejected is part of the process of getting one. I recommended the book with or without the imprimatur, and still do.


Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

Last edited by trth_skr; Jul 3, '07 at 10:51 pm.
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  #18  
Old Jul 3, '07, 11:11 pm
WestonGrant WestonGrant is offline
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
I was quite clear that it did not have an imprimatur. I also stated he is in the process of getting one. Both are true. Sometimes getting rejected is part of the process of getting one. I recommended the book with or without the imprimatur, and still do.


Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

The words you picked gave a very misleading impression about what was going on and I think you know that. You wanted people to think everything was coming along normally with no problems. It comes out that its not true now.

The question wasn't if he had an imprimatur. Everyone knew that as far as I can tell. So I don't know why you keep saying that.

This is more like getting a rejection for a water quality test and telling people everything is going along fine with the testing and that its' in the process because a legal re-test appeal might come out okay. Well what if it doesn't come out okay again? What about everyone you made think the water was okay and they drink the water based on that misleading idea?

And go back to your own analogy. You ask your girlfiend to marry you. She says no. Your friends ask you how the proposal went and if she turned you down or said yes. You say only, "I'm still in the process of asking her to marry me, its in the works."

Were you honest with your friends? Not by a long shot.

Last edited by WestonGrant; Jul 3, '07 at 11:22 pm.
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  #19  
Old Jul 3, '07, 11:38 pm
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
The words you picked gave a very misleading impression about what was going on and I think you know that. You wanted people to think everything was coming along normally with no problems. It comes out that its not true now.

The question wasn't if he had an imprimatur. Everyone knew that as far as I can tell. So I don't know why you keep saying that.

This is more like getting a rejection for a water quality test and telling people everything is going along fine with the testing and that its' in the process because a legal re-test appeal might come out okay. Well what if it doesn't come out okay again? What about everyone you made think the water was okay and they drink the water based on that misleading idea?
No, because the water is fine, actually quite good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
And go back to your own analogy. You ask your girlfiend to marry you. She says no. Your friends ask you how the proposal went and if she turned you down or said yes. You say only, "I'm still in the process of asking her to marry me, its in the works."

Were you honest with your friends? Not by a long shot.
No, you are engaged. True she rejected you for a few dates, but it is not necassary to say anything. You are in the process of getting married. Robert has written the book, it is excellent, and should be able to get an imprimatur.

If it cannot get an imprimatur because it is necassary to teach that the Mosaic covenant is salvific in order to get one, then I will say, do without the imprimatur. On the other hand, not all bishops are going to push that type of an agenda. Either way the book is what it is.


Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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  #20  
Old Jul 4, '07, 12:34 am
WestonGrant WestonGrant is offline
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
No, because the water is fine, actually quite good.
But come on, you aren't the testing official. Who are you to say everything is fine when the only official to test it says it isn't fine? The bishops are the official authority. I'm not and you're not either. The only official test I know of so far said there's a problem, from Dr. Sungenis' bishop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
No, you are engaged. True she rejected you for a few dates, but it is not necassary to say anything.
You think you're engaged when your girlfriend says no to your marriage proposal? And if I gave those kind of excuses to my friends about why I didn't tell them the truth I doubt they would be my friends for very long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
You are in the process of getting married. Robert has written the book, it is excellent, and should be able to get an imprimatur.
Right now it looks more like you're sending out wedding invitations after your girlfriend just turned you down, hoping she'll change her mind in time for the wedding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
If it cannot get an imprimatur because it is necassary to teach that the Mosaic covenant is salvific in order to get one, then I will say, do without the imprimatur. On the other hand, not all bishops are going to push that type of an agenda. Either way the book is what it is.

Is that why Dr. Sungenis' bishop turned him down? Do you know that?

Look, to me this isn't as much about Dr. Sungenis as it is you right now. I just don't appreciate the misleading things you've been telling me going back a month or more now. I even started to believe your answers after. I think the other part that bothers me is that you were out here complaining about Barber and Hahn, saying they were acting like Protestants for the way they interpreted the Apocolypse.

Like I said, the question wasn't about whether it had an imprimatur. It was about if it was turned down, when it was sent and if anything came back from his bishop. I wasn't the only one asking you questions. You were being very misleading with the words you used and tried to make people think everything was fine by using words in a clever way. Everything wasn't fine. And I don't appreciate it.

Maybe you're just trying to protect your friend but the way you're doing it isn't cool.

Last edited by WestonGrant; Jul 4, '07 at 12:54 am.
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  #21  
Old Jul 4, '07, 9:07 am
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
...Like I said, the question wasn't about whether it had an imprimatur. It was about if it was turned down, when it was sent and if anything came back from his bishop. I wasn't the only one asking you questions. You were being very misleading with the words you used and tried to make people think everything was fine by using words in a clever way. Everything wasn't fine. And I don't appreciate it.

Maybe you're just trying to protect your friend but the way you're doing it isn't cool.
The main person asking about the imprimatuir was Augustine22, followed by lumengentlemen (JM). Augustine22's main purpose was to attack Sungenis. I was here on CA when his very first post showed up, and it was to attack Sungenis. Lumengentlemen was doing the same thing.

That is why I was quite clear that it did not have an imprimatur, and I still stood behind it. The fact it was turned down for an imprimatur is really no ones business. Books are turned down for imprimaturs all the time, and just end up getting published without one. Sungenis' bishop was quite clear that his book does not require one.

I'm sorry if you feel let down. That was not my intention.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogsopt.com
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  #22  
Old Jul 4, '07, 10:01 am
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Boring, boring, boring,

Ho hum.

I double-checked and the Pope's recent book, Jesus of Nazareth does not have an imprimatur or nihil obstat, neither does an earlier work of his with Hans Urs Von Balthasar titled "Mary the Church and the Source."

After all, the New American Bible had an imprimatur and nihil obstat, so this all seems like a p-ing contest to me.

Do we really have an issue here? What is the problem?
__________________
I rejoiced when they said to me, let us go up to the house of the Lord.
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  #23  
Old Jul 4, '07, 11:17 am
WestonGrant WestonGrant is offline
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
The main person asking about the imprimatuir was Augustine22, followed by lumengentlemen (JM). Augustine22's main purpose was to attack Sungenis. I was here on CA when his very first post showed up, and it was to attack Sungenis. Lumengentlemen was doing the same thing.

Maybe you're right. I don't know. But you started it off by doing just the opposite with more commercials for his bible studies there and on another thread. That's why I said something in the first place. You had some really negative things to say about Hahn and Barber acting like Protestants and then you pushed Dr. Sungenis' book instead. That really bothers me considering that Dr. Sungenis book was turned down for an imprimatur and you knew it. It looks to me like you use the bishop's imprimatur like a commercial when it helps Dr. Sungenis with his books and then you treat the bishops like they're dirt when they say something negative about him and that your opinion of his books matters more than theirs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
The fact it was turned down for an imprimatur is really no ones business. Books are turned down for imprimaturs all the time, and just end up getting published without one. Sungenis' bishop was quite clear that his book does not require one.
Don't you think when you tell everyone you're going to have an imprimatur in your ads then you're making it everyone's business? I mean, come on. The ad saying all of his bible studies will have an imprimatur is still there. And that's true about the Matthew edition too.

"And, of course, they contain the Catholic Church's Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, just as the CASB will contain. There is no Bible like the CASB on the market, Catholic or Protestant. No one has ever updated the Douay-Rheims Bible; no one has ever made an "Apologetics Bible" with extensive explanation on key controversial verses; no one has ever gone into the original languages as thoroughly as the CASB does; no Bible contains the extensive amount of scriptural cross-references; few bibles on the market today remain faithful to word-for-word translation; no Bible gives such extensive citations of the Early Fathers, Councils, Popes and Catechism as the CASB; most Catholic Bibles do not have a concordance, but the CASB does."

http://catholicintl.com/donations/casb.htm


How do you make a promise like that before you even know what the bishop said? I don't see other people doing that.

If he asked for the imprimatur in private and didn't advertise it then to me that would be different. And when you were asked questions about whether it was turned down or heard from the bishop one way or the other you made it sound like everything was fine and it wasn't. Everyone is reading your answers even if they are to someone you think it just attacking Dr. Sungenis.

Then there is still the problem about his translation for the Matthew edition. I donít see anything saying that Dr. Sungenis can go ahead and publish it as is. It says they wonít give him an imprimatur because its not a true translation and because he used dynamic equivalence when he made it. And the letter said he could appeal the decision to get an imprimatur like he did for his Apocalypse edition. Did he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
I'm sorry if you feel let down. That was not my intention.
Look, I appreciate that and I'm not trying to be unfair. Like I said, maybe you were trying to protect your friend. But what I'm hearing doesn't fly.

And Crumpy, if the Pope had his book turned down for an imprimatur or couldnít get his translation approved that would be pretty important news.

But I agree this is getting old. I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round and its time to get off.

Last edited by WestonGrant; Jul 4, '07 at 11:28 am.
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  #24  
Old Jul 4, '07, 12:35 pm
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
...You had some really negative things to say about Hahn and Barber acting like Protestants and then you pushed Dr. Sungenis' book instead.
I did not say (certainly did not mean) that Barber and Hahn were acting like Protestants. I have already clarified that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
... The ad saying all of his bible studies will have an imprimatur is still there. And that's true about the Matthew edition too.

...http://catholicintl.com/donations/casb.htm
The ad is on the website, but it is not linked to anything accessible to the public. In other words if you go to the website, you cannot get to that ad. Only if you happen to know the address (or maybe if you Google it). It is an old ad. I am not sure when the links were removed.

Happy 4th!

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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  #25  
Old Jul 4, '07, 1:11 pm
WestonGrant WestonGrant is offline
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

I really don't want to go around more on this, but there are two things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
I did not say (certainly did not mean) that Barber and Hahn were acting like Protestants. I have already clarified that.
This is what you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
We are not Protestants, we cannot invent new views because they make sense. I realize the Church has not rejected this view, but nor has it supoorted it....I just do not think it should be packaged for popular consumption (i.e., Hahn, Barber, etc.). It should be studied by theologians of the Church if anything.
So you said what they were doing was Protestant by inventing things and that "if anything" their work should be studied by theologians. That's very strong criticism.

And you agreed that what you wrote implies they were acting like Protestants in their work. Then you said you didn't mean to say that Hahn and Barber themselves were Protestant. But that wasn't my point. You said that what they did was Protestant. And now that I know about what is going on with the books you recommended from Dr. Sungenis, that makes what you said about Hahn and Barber even harder to swallow. That's all I'm saying. I just asked you to be the same with everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trth_skr View Post
The ad is on the website, but it is not linked to anything accessible to the public. In other words if you go to the website, you cannot get to that ad. Only if you happen to know the address (or maybe if you Google it). It is an old ad. I am not sure when the links were removed.


I found it by clicking an ad on his main page. If you click on the "3 Down and 10 to go" ad it comes up. I just checked it again.

Anyways. Peace. Time for burgers and hotdogs!

God bless and Happy 4th of July to you, too.

Last edited by WestonGrant; Jul 4, '07 at 1:23 pm.
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  #26  
Old Jul 4, '07, 1:22 pm
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
..That's not true. I found it by clicking an ad on his main page. If you click on the "3 Down and 10 to go" ad it comes up. I just checked it again.

Anyways. Peace. Time for burgers and hotdogs!

God bless and Happy 4th of July to you, too.
You're right, I missed it. He needs to remove that link.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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  #27  
Old Jul 4, '07, 1:24 pm
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonGrant View Post
...I found it by clicking an ad on his main page. If you click on the "3 Down and 10 to go" ad it comes up. I just checked it again.

Anyways. Peace. Time for burgers and hotdogs!

God bless and Happy 4th of July to you, too.
You're right, I missed that one.

He needs to remove that link.

Time to go fire up the BBQ...

Mark Wyatt
www.veritasc-atholci.blogspot.cmo
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  #28  
Old Jul 4, '07, 1:26 pm
WestonGrant WestonGrant is offline
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Default Re: Imprimatur for Latest Books from Robert Sungenis Denied

I was starting to wonder if I was losing it!

Cool.

Happy 4th! Man, I love the smell of burgers on a grille!
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