Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > The Water Cooler > Back Fence
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Oct 20, '04, 6:18 pm
Boanerges Boanerges is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 63
Religion: Catholic in the way of St. Athanasius
Default Was St. Athanasius right?

In his defense against the Arians at the Council of Nicea, St. Athanasius was to have said "the skulls of bishops pave the floor of hell". According to one source, as many as 80% of the bishops of the Catholic Church at that time fell into this heresy. Thus it prompted the quote I just mentioned.

Questions:

1. Is 80% right? That seems awfully high. Arius must have been very persuasive.

2. Are we confronted with a similar problem today where bishops either ignore or even agree with the present day heretics like Kerry and Kennedy?

3. Is this also the reason the Church is reeling from the sex abuse scandal?

Any thoughts, please!


AMDG
Bo
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Oct 20, '04, 6:29 pm
Edwin1961 Edwin1961 is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 29,887
Religion: Catholic in the Byzantine RIte of the Ruthenian tradition
Default Re: Was St. Athanasius right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boanerges
In his defense against the Arians at the Council of Nicea, St. Athanasius was to have said "the skulls of bishops pave the floor of hell". According to one source, as many as 80% of the bishops of the Catholic Church at that time fell into this heresy. Thus it prompted the quote I just mentioned.

Questions:

1. Is 80% right? That seems awfully high. Arius must have been very persuasive.

2. Are we confronted with a similar problem today where bishops either ignore or even agree with the present day heretics like Kerry and Kennedy?

3. Is this also the reason the Church is reeling from the sex abuse scandal?

Any thoughts, please!


AMDG
Bo
Of course Bo, there were other historical events that could add more to the 80% amount.
The Inquisiton
The Reformation
All the Bishops we don't know about during history who may of had mortal sins, of many kinds.

just a thought

go with God!
Edwin
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Oct 20, '04, 7:24 pm
Les Richardson Les Richardson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 2, 2004
Posts: 481
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was St. Athanasius right?

I was just reading about that very time period. Arius was not that persuasive. In fact, he was dead by the time Arianism really hit its stride. Eusebius was the Bishop of the east who was the real schemer. He was a power seeker and was able to seduce many of the bishops of the east by toning down the stark contrast of pure Arianism with Nicea by offering ambiguous creeds. Partly what won him support was the fact that the word in the Nicean creed "homoousion", indicating that Jesus Christ was God "of the same substance" as the Father, had been rejected years before when Sabellian used it to promote another heresy, that Jesus was not really a man. In the east they were very suspicious of anything that even appeared to open the door to Sabellianism.

Those bishops were "Arian-lite" so to speak. Moreover, the various emperors (notably Constantius II) interfered and forced many of the western bishops to sign onto the modified Arian creed. So in the end, there were not that many true Arians, but as long as the Emperor was Arian that was all that was needed to give them the upper hand.

Perhaps today's bishops have been intimidated? Perhaps they don't want to mess with the temporal power, although now would be as good a time as any. It is difficult to say.

Reeling from the sex-abuse scandal may be partly the cause of trepidation by some bishops. Who can take them seriously after that?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Oct 20, '04, 7:48 pm
HagiaSophia HagiaSophia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2004
Posts: 7,681
Post Re: Was St. Athanasius right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Richardson
I was just reading about that very time period. Arius was not that persuasive. In fact, he was dead by the time Arianism really hit its stride. Eusebius was the Bishop of the east who was the real schemer. He was a power seeker and was able to seduce many of the bishops of the east by toning down the stark contrast of pure Arianism with Nicea by offering ambiguous creeds. Partly what won him support was the fact that the word in the Nicean creed "homoousion", indicating that Jesus Christ was God "of the same substance" as the Father, had been rejected years before when Sabellian used it to promote another heresy, that Jesus was not really a man. In the east they were very suspicious of anything that even appeared to open the door to Sabellianism.

Those bishops were "Arian-lite" so to speak. Moreover, the various emperors (notably Constantius II) interfered and forced many of the western bishops to sign onto the modified Arian creed. So in the end, there were not that many true Arians, but as long as the Emperor was Arian that was all that was needed to give them the upper hand.

Perhaps today's bishops have been intimidated? Perhaps they don't want to mess with the temporal power, although now would be as good a time as any. It is difficult to say.

Reeling from the sex-abuse scandal may be partly the cause of trepidation by some bishops. Who can take them seriously after that?
Interesting thoughts but I also think two other things may have come into play.

It became the norm for many American bishops to be appointed because they were excellent "businessmen" without regard to other qualities which led to more of them, appointing auxiliaries etc who were like themselves. Or those were were major fundraisers.

It used to be that the church promoted the idea that we were to be in the world but not of it - in modern times it seems as if the opposite has occurred in many places.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Mar 19, '09, 5:11 pm
Ora_et_Labora Ora_et_Labora is offline
Junior Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2008
Posts: 489
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was St. Athanasius right?

Though I don't have any sources at the moment, it seems that soe scholars today try to portray St.Athansius as a mad man. They say he had some bishops killed, that he had the power to persuade the people to raise violent mobs, etc. Is there any basis to any of these claims? I know that another Saint, a Father of the Church, was trying to take a middle ground between Arianism and "Athanasianism" and he considered Athanasius to be an obsessed lunatic. I'll have to lok his name up and get back to this.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > The Water Cooler > Back Fence

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
6628CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
6217Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
5190Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
4631Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4309Poems and Reflections
Last by: Purgatory Pete
4055OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: Fischli
3293For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: GLam8833
3261Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Herculees
2828Let's Empty Purgatory 2
Last by: Tis Bearself
2449SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:39 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.