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  #16  
Old Nov 30, '09, 8:52 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Eucharist

CATHOLIC SCHOLARS SAY THAT THE CHURCH OF ROME USED LEAVENED BREAD
for the first 800 and more years.

The change to unleavened bread in Rome took place towards the end of the first millennium.


Fr. Joseph Jungman -- in his The Mass of the Roman Rite -- states that:


"In the West, various ordinances appeared from the ninth century on, all demanding the exclusive use of unleavened bread for the Eucharist. A growing solicitude for the Blessed Sacrament and a desire to employ only the best and whitest bread, along with various scriptural considerations -- all favored this development.


"Still, the new custom did not come into exclusive vogue until the middle of the eleventh century. Particularly in Rome it was not universally accepted till after the general infiltration of various usages from the North" [Rome itself, conservative as alwaysr, did not change to unleavened bread until a few decades after the schism.]

~ Joseph Jungman, The Mass of the Roman Rite, volume II, pages 33-34


Fr. Jungman goes on to say that:


". . . the opinion put forward by J. Mabillon, Dissertatio de pane eucharistia, in his answer to the Jesuit J. Sirmond, Disquisitio de azymo, namely, that in the West it was always the practice to use only unleavened bread, is no longer tenable."


"Now, the fact that the West changed its practice and began using unleavened bread in the 8th and 9th century -- instead of the traditional leavened bread -- is confirmed by the research of Fr. William O'Shea, who noted that along with various other innovative practices from Northern Europe, the use of unleavened bread began to infiltrate into the Roman liturgy at the end of the first millennium, because as he put it, "Another change introduced into the Roman Rite
in France and Germany at the time [i.e., 8th - 9th century] was the use of unleavened bread and of thin white wafers or hosts instead of the loaves of leavened bread used hitherto"


~ Fr. William O'Shea, The Worship of the Church, page 128


"Moreover, this change in Western liturgical practice was also noted by Dr. Johannes H. Emminghaus in his book, The Eucharist: Essence, Form, Celebration, because as he said:


"The Eucharistic bread has been unleavened in the Latin rite since the 8th century -- that is, it is prepared simply from flour and water, without the addition of leaven or yeast. . . . in the first millennium of the Church's history, both in East and West, the bread normally used for the Eucharist was ordinary 'daily bread,' that is, leavened bread, and the Eastern Church uses it still today; for the most part, they strictly forbid the use of unleavened bread. The Latin Church, by contrast, has not considered this question very important."


~ Dr. Johannes H. Emminghaus, The Eucharist: Essence, Form, Celebration, page 162


"Thus, with the foregoing information in mind, it is clear that the use of leavened bread by the Eastern Churches represents the ancient practice of the undivided Church, while the use of unleavened bread by the Western Church was an innovation introduced near the end of the first millennium."
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  #17  
Old Nov 30, '09, 10:22 am
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Brendan Brendan is offline
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Default Re: Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Eucharist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosty View Post
Actually, artos doesn't mean "leavened bread", it just means "bread". In the Old Testament the "showbread" of the Temple is referred to as "artos", despite being unleavened.

Peace and God bless!
And also the LXX refers to Manna as being 'artos' even though it was also simply flakes.
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  #18  
Old Nov 30, '09, 11:52 pm
BerhaneSelassie BerhaneSelassie is offline
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Default Re: Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Eucharist

Thanks for pointing out Artos can refer to any bread.

It seems in the Early Church the type of bread did not matter, otherwise leavened or unleavened would have been explicitly mentioned.

Its interesting St Thomas Aquinas and other medieval theologians believed Leavened bread became standard custom in the East due to Judaizers, ie, the Ebionites believed only unleaven bread should be used, so the East responded by almost exclusively using leavened bread.

According to this book there were Syrian Orthodox (Jacobites) using unleavened bread in the 6th century,

http://books.google.com/books?id=sta...iturgy&f=false

Pg 68
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  #19  
Old Dec 1, '09, 12:10 am
Alethiaphile Alethiaphile is offline
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Default Re: Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Eucharist

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlo View Post
What ever the occasion was, the Jewish Tradition states that before the Passover meal, the Jews remove leaven weeks before the Passover, and there is a formal searching of leaven a day before the passover, the Jewish Wife, make sure that before this searching is done she made sure that all leaven is removed, they do this, weeks before the formal searching is performed.
So, what ever the occasion was, According to Jewish Tradition, it should be unleavened bread. But this issue should not be a cause of division for us, because both bread were used by the apostles.
The Eucharist was not, and is not, a "Seder meal". It uses elements of the Seder meal, and the Seder meal is a foreshadowing of it, but it goes far beyond the Seder meal, quite obviously. To impose the requirements of Jewish Tradition to the Eucharist is an example of what Jesus was talking about when He said that we don't pour new wine into old wineskins. It is the same logic used by the Sabbatarian sects. Orthodox Christianity is characterized by its breaking away from, or rather transformation and fulfillment of, Judaism, not a conformity to it. This was decided as far back as the Council of Jerusalem. Joe
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  #20  
Old Dec 1, '09, 4:16 pm
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Eucharist

\\Its interesting St Thomas Aquinas and other medieval theologians believed Leavened bread became standard custom in the East due to Judaizers, ie, the Ebionites believed only unleaven bread should be used, so the East responded by almost exclusively using leavened bread. \\

This says a lot about the level of liturgical scholarship at the time of Aquinas and his fellows at the time.
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  #21  
Old Dec 1, '09, 4:33 pm
Ghosty Ghosty is offline
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Default Re: Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Eucharist

BpBasilphx:

There's actually no evidence that leavened bread was used exclusively in the West, however, even in the sources you cited. It simply became exclusively unleavened at a later time.

Peace and God bless!
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  #22  
Old Dec 2, '09, 6:04 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread for Eucharist

I agree it does seem to be that both forms of bread were used indifferently in the West, or at least in some places.

But I've read somewhere that in England, at least for a while, a square paten and three-fold braided leavened loaf were used.
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