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  #1  
Old Jun 8, '05, 3:35 pm
Lux_et_veritas Lux_et_veritas is offline
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Default Medjugorje - A True Confession

THIS CAN BE A TOUCHY SUBJECT. PLEASE BE CHARITABLE IN YOUR RESPONSES TO EACH OTHER OR I WILL REQUEST THE THREAD BE CLOSED! THANK YOU FOR COOPERATING.

In November 1980 to February of 1983 I was in a convent in Hercegovina right near the site of Medjugorje. In fact, the sisters from my order served the parish of St. James.

I had been skeptical in the early going, then was leaning towards authenticity when I was cranking out 14,000 hosts personally for a three day period. And, watching confession lines with dozens of priests, kids fasting and passing up discos while singing Marian songs as they walked to the church for mass each night, etc.

I recall my fellow Franciscan sisters and priests talking about a rift between the diocesan authorities and the Franciscan order, but did not understand it until I began looking into it now, 20 years later.

After much research, I am much disturbed after seeing my own contempt for the local authority, Bishop Zanic and his successor Bishop Peric, and concluded it was a bad seed - the contempt that is.

After reading more information and balancing it out with all of the good, I have come to a conclusion for myself that it is either a hoax or diabolical. This is not to say that good people aren't finding God through their prayers there, but I cannot for the life of me understand how Our Lady would ever sanction disobedience disrespect, contempt, malice, defamation - in the name of "Queen of Peace", all aimed at the Local Ordinary, who stuck well within the bounds of church doctrine. It would be one thing if the Bishops had told the kids to go commit murder. I mean, outright lying and pitting the Blessed Mother against the local bishop is unfathomable, and there is plenty of documentation that the "seers" did just this.

That right there got me. Next thing I knew, I found myself in confession emptying my closet for sinning against a Bishop whose diocese I resided in over 20 years ago. I compounded this as I continued to badmouth the guy anytime the subject of Medjugorje came up.

When the light bulb finally went on, I realized I had not only sinned against the Bishop, but had sinned against the Holy Spirit for not trusting Him to guide the Local Ordinary as is one of our core beliefs in such matters. Even Padre Pio stopped saying mass publicly when ordered to do so by his local authority. Ditto with St. Faustina whom Jesus told to always follow Mother Superior even before Him, and she was put to the test.

Trust in the Holy Spirit without obedience and trust in the Local Ordinary is a serious conflict. Several of the Franciscan Priests I had come to know and love have gotten themselves in serious trouble, with some being defrocked. When one of our sisters suddenly disappeard overnight (after hearing she was prego), it was only recently I learned she was impregnated by one of those Franciscans. There are several other examples of infidelity. These are not good fruits. St. Francis must be beside himself at the thought of any Franciscan or Franciscan in formation (such as myself) who would not humble themselves before their Bishop, much less speak out against him on a matter in which he has jurisdiction.

After my confession, I contacted Bishop Peric by email with my apology - an email about as long as this post, and received a reply three days later - a very merciful and understanding acceptance. He said that Bishop Zanic had died in 2000, but would have rejoiced at my email.

Buried beneath the good fruits, are many rotten fruits and those running around badmouthing a Bishop need to seriously evaluate their position.

I shutter to think how many people were affected by my words against the local bishop. What good were my prayers, fasting, rosaries, confessions all the while holding contempt and outright malice for the Local Ordinary? If others are doing this, think long and hard. I hope more engaged in this will repent as I have because the Lord, nor the Blessed Mother would ever advocate, sanction, or promote such behavior.

Mea Maxima Culpa!
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Last edited by Lux_et_veritas; Jun 8, '05 at 3:47 pm.
  #2  
Old Jun 8, '05, 3:45 pm
Jayson Jayson is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - How do you Lean?

the Holy Father has "never, ever made a positive statement about Medjugorje."

I think it's a diabolical hoax: http://www.unitypublishing.com/dod.html

A True message from heaven from Our Lady: http://www.ewtn.com/fatima/
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  #3  
Old Jun 8, '05, 3:49 pm
tkdnick tkdnick is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

Thanks for sharing that! I know so little about the "whole thing" that I can't comment one way or the other, but thank you for sharing!
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  #4  
Old Jun 8, '05, 3:52 pm
socalcarmelite socalcarmelite is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

This is too bad. Has anyone ever spent time with ANY of these people? I know Ardy Kronzer, and believe me, she made her OWN choices. Her husband Phillip did a lot to make her look bad. and other things, which I will not post. The visionaries are nice, normal people, who don't want that much attention. I know, I spent time with them.

As someone who has been to Medjugorje and know several of these people, this stuff is just not true.

I'll post more on this later...
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  #5  
Old Jun 8, '05, 3:54 pm
CheesusPowerKid CheesusPowerKid is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

As for its authenticity, I cannot really say...but I do know this much:

My sister and I, at both very different times and occasions, struggled incredibly seriously with out faiths...I went to lose mine completely for almost six months. Somehow, the events, the miracles, that helped both of us back to our faiths, or at least helped start the journey back, both were related to Medjugorje. My sister, when she was 14, mysteriously recieve a prayer card and pendant from Medjugorje, and, last year, I mysteriously recieved a small, wooden rosary from Medjugorje. Neither of us told the other about our mysterious gifts until I accidentally stumbled onto hers a few weeks after recieving my rosary. Now that we both have realized what happened, we firmly believe that these miracles were truly from God Himself...now, whether or not the fact that they both came from Medjugorje has anything to do with it, I do not and may not ever know...but I do know that I believe in my heart that there is something very special about that place...my sister and I have both made it out sincere desire to one day visit Medjugorje for ourselves.

That's really all I can say on it

In Him,
Britty
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  #6  
Old Jun 8, '05, 3:55 pm
Lux_et_veritas Lux_et_veritas is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

One thing I'll add, if not more later as my memory is sparked is that when I left the order in 1983 due to illness, I didn't bother to keep up on it. I did at first for about a year, but didn't have internet until a decade later, so there really was no way that I could. I fell away from that, and from everything else Catholic aside from showing up late for church and leaving early. So, I'm just now digging into things I wish I had known years ago because I was blasting the Bishop on another forum just about 2 months ago when someone challenged me. That's when I began to dig deeper.

There is much trickery "out there" and all I can say is that there is Truth takes so much more work, than fallacy. I found one thing after another that made it look like Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger supported it. Then upon continuing to search further, finally found an official statement from Cardinal Ratzinger to the effect that people must have pulled that out of thin air because he never said those things that were being reported. If anyone needs those links, I can try to dig them up another time.
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  #7  
Old Jun 8, '05, 3:59 pm
Lux_et_veritas Lux_et_veritas is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheesusPowerKid
As for its authenticity, I cannot really say...but I do know this much:

My sister and I, at both very different times and occasions, struggled incredibly seriously with out faiths...I went to lose mine completely for almost six months. Somehow, the events, the miracles, that helped both of us back to our faiths, or at least helped start the journey back, both were related to Medjugorje. My sister, when she was 14, mysteriously recieve a prayer card and pendant from Medjugorje, and, last year, I mysteriously recieved a small, wooden rosary from Medjugorje. Neither of us told the other about our mysterious gifts until I accidentally stumbled onto hers a few weeks after recieving my rosary. Now that we both have realized what happened, we firmly believe that these miracles were truly from God Himself...now, whether or not the fact that they both came from Medjugorje has anything to do with it, I do not and may not ever know...but I do know that I believe in my heart that there is something very special about that place...my sister and I have both made it out sincere desire to one day visit Medjugorje for ourselves.

That's really all I can say on it

In Him,
Britty
Yours is a healthy and proper attitude towards it. Yes, you became closer to God from it and many people have. Yet you are open to the possibility that it was just God himself.

There is some real venom out there directed at the Local Ordinary today, Bishop Peric. It is horrible to think that anyone speaking in the name of Queen of Peace would create such dissent. Historically, the Blessed Mother and even Jesus Himself, always told their visionaries to defer to their local authorities. It is unbelievable just how they and the Franciscans, and some followers the world over have worked to defame the bishop. This is a very bad sign. One test of authenticity is obedience because the devil cannot handle obedience. On such matters, local authorities will often put the seer to the test of obedience.

One of the "seers" was entering the very order I was in after I left and she was told that she may be ordered to no longer speak of the visions if she entered the convent. The seer backed down and did not join stating instead that she could better serve God outside of the convent. Not a good sign at all considering all legitimate apparitions such as Lourdes and Fatima.
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  #8  
Old Jun 8, '05, 4:03 pm
STIOFÁN STIOFÁN is offline
 
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

Well this thread may be closed anyway as wer'e forbidden I think to discuss unapproved apparations.

Well having bought the Medjugorje Hearld for a few years, I got fed up with it, the messages were to me just more of the same so I don't read it anymore.

Having read into the early times of the apparations, one thing that sent bells ringing was "disobedience" thats not good.

Having read about Saint Margaret Mary and the revelations of the Sacred Heart, well that was the crunch.

Jesus told Saint Margaret Mary that He wanted some request carried out.

So she went to her superiours, but they forbid her, she told Jesus this, and He said that He was pleased she didn't go against authority, and that the devil has no power over the obedient.

Even if an apparation is false, there is always prayer and an increase in devotion.

Is Medjugorje False ? I don't know, time will tell, but one thing for sure disobedience isn't a good sign, I mean thats the reason were in this mess in the first place, the disobedience of Adam and Eve.

  #9  
Old Jun 8, '05, 4:07 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

I never heard about any misconduct by the Franciscans who were supporting the visionaries, and certainly never heard the pregnant nun story - which should not be spread and repeated without concrete proof - but the general drift of your testimony, that many of those in the church who supported the visionaries did so in direct opposition to the local bishop, confirms what I have heard from other Franciscans who lived and worked in and around Medjugore.

People who travel there in good faith, with good intentions and with no idea of working against church authority may certainly have worthwhile spiritual experiences, due to their own faith and piety, but that does not validate the visions or the visionaries.
Personally the conduct of the visionaries in later years, including world tours promoting themselves and their so-called messages, is enough to convince me the visions are at least a hoax if not worse.

I received about 10 yrs ago a book with all the supposed messages to date translated to English, and while most were innocuous some were definitely challenging to church authority, which is enough in my mind to invalidate the whole thing.
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  #10  
Old Jun 8, '05, 4:07 pm
Lux_et_veritas Lux_et_veritas is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalcarmelite
This is too bad. Has anyone ever spent time with ANY of these people? I know Ardy Kronzer, and believe me, she made her OWN choices. Her husband Phillip did a lot to make her look bad. and other things, which I will not post. The visionaries are nice, normal people, who don't want that much attention. I know, I spent time with them.

As someone who has been to Medjugorje and know several of these people, this stuff is just not true.

I'll post more on this later...
Yes, I knew them. I lived there for 2.5 years and have pictures of myself with several of the "seers". Sure they are nice. But, don't make the mistake I did. I put loyalty to friends (Franciscan and otherswise) above God and Church. This should never happen and when it is recognized it is a good time to have a chat with a priest - one that isn't seeing visions himself. Any priest who is not reaffirming the need to not visit Medjugorje based on apparent authenticity of apparitions, is not worth talking to on the subject. This is the Vatican's official position. One can visit individually, or in groups not organized by priests. Priests can accompany a group of people, but no individuals should be going there based on anything other than making a journey based on prayer and other sacraments. I can provide a link on that as well if anyone requests it.

Believe me, I know the pain of slowly uncovering the fallacies and bad fruits. I was willing to look at the good fruits and not the bad. This is where we need to be careful.
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  #11  
Old Jun 8, '05, 4:11 pm
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Therese Martin Therese Martin is offline
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Arrow Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

General reminder:

Please keep in mind the prohibition against discussing the contents of unapproved private apparitions on the Catholic Answers Forums. If this topic drifts in that direction, it will have to be closed. Thanks!
  #12  
Old Jun 8, '05, 4:30 pm
Lux_et_veritas Lux_et_veritas is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzleannie
I never heard about any misconduct by the Franciscans who were supporting the visionaries, and certainly never heard the pregnant nun story - which should not be spread and repeated without concrete proof - but the general drift of your testimony, that many of those in the church who supported the visionaries did so in direct opposition to the local bishop, confirms what I have heard from other Franciscans who lived and worked in and around Medjugore.
Well, I can tell you I remember the sister in question leaving the order very pregnant and her name has already been published in documents and books, as well as the priest who started a family with her who has since been defrocked. They are married with several children and I'll post the info up when I find it again.

Remember, I was in the order there in Hercegovina, not just traversing through.

This information, directly from Bishop Peric, the Local Ordinary shows many of the msdeeds of my Franciscan priestly friends which is why it took me some time to digest it and reconcile with the fact that I put friendship above God and Church. He emailed me this document as an attachment, but it was already available on the web.

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Newsl...pPeric2004.htm

Bishop Peric sent me this document as well.


http://jloughnan.tripod.com/medj1004.htm


Here is more on just to what extent my Franciscan priestly friends took their disobedience and disrepect for the Local Ordinary. Note that it is official documentation from Bishop Peric himself.

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Appar...akeBishop.html

As I said, I will provide links that document the marriage of the nun and priest I knew while I was there. I have to round them up again.

Quote:
People who travel there in good faith, with good intentions and with no idea of working against church authority may certainly have worthwhile spiritual experiences, due to their own faith and piety, but that does not validate the visions or the visionaries.
Personally the conduct of the visionaries in later years, including world tours promoting themselves and their so-called messages, is enough to convince me the visions are at least a hoax if not worse.

I received about 10 yrs ago a book with all the supposed messages to date translated to English, and while most were innocuous some were definitely challenging to church authority, which is enough in my mind to invalidate the whole thing.
Agreed. My point is to drop a line to people who themselves find they are holding contempt for the local authority. Many pro-medjugorje websites are already defaming these authorities and unknowing people are following.
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  #13  
Old Jun 8, '05, 4:37 pm
Lux_et_veritas Lux_et_veritas is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

Ok - here is a document penned by the Local Ordinary of that those early days, Bishop Pavao Zanic which discusses the case of "Sr. Leopolda" and "Fr. Ivica Vego". Their names are published by a document from that local authority.

http://www.catholictradition.org/medjugorje5a.htm

Their names were published again in another document released by the successor and current Local Ordinary, Bishop Ratko Peric. Here is that:

http://www.unitypublishing.com/newswire/finaldec.html

It doesn't get more official than what I have provided.

I know it is painful people, but please remember, the Holy Spirit works through such authorities on these matters and the Blessed Mother would never sanction the kind of venom directed at any local bishop, as well as the blatant disobedience displayed. History proves strongly otherwise. St. Francis is rolling in his grave.
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  #14  
Old Jun 8, '05, 4:48 pm
MrS MrS is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

All very interesting..... and why I hope someday to travel to Lourdes and/or Fatima
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Old Jun 8, '05, 4:53 pm
nobody nobody is offline
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Default Re: Medjugorje - A True Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux_et_veritas
This is the Vatican's official position. One can visit individually, or in groups not organized by priests. Priests can accompany a group of people, but no individuals should be going there based on anything other than making a journey based on prayer and other sacraments. I can provide a link on that as well if anyone requests it.
You've been so good about providing links. May I ask you to provide this one as well?

Thank you.
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