1,000 "Surplus" Boys Expelled from Mormon Sect

The lost boys, thrown out of US sect so that older men can marry more wives

Julian Borger in Washington
June 14, 2005
The Guardian

Up to 1,000 teenage boys have been separated from their parents and thrown out of their communities by a polygamous sect to make more young women available for older men, Utah officials claim.

Many of these “Lost Boys”, some as young as 13, have simply been dumped on the side of the road in Arizona and Utah, by the leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS), and told they will never see their families again or go to heaven.

The 10,000-strong FLDS, which broke away from the Mormon church in 1890 when the mainstream faith disavowed polygamy, believes a man must marry at least three women to go to heaven. The sect appeared to be in turmoil yesterday, after its assets were frozen last week and a warrant was issued in Arizona on Friday for the arrest of its autocratic leader, Warren Jeffs, for arranging a wedding between an underage girl and a 28-year-old man who was already married.

Mr Jeffs is also being sued by lawyers for six of the Lost Boys for conspiracy to purge surplus males from the community. . . .


Full article

I didn’t post this as a hit piece on any Mormon church/sect per se.

I thought it was a highly illustrative of the instability of polygamy-based communities, which tend to create a large underclass of unwed (and therefore non-rooted) “surplus” males.

In this case, the “surplus” males were practically ripped out by the roots. :frowning:

Just so everyone’s clear, this and similar groups aren’t part of the LDS church and are considered apostate. They separated in 1890 when Official Declaration 1 was issued prohibiting the practice of plural marriage.

[quote=Casen]Just so everyone’s clear, this and similar groups aren’t part of the LDS church and are considered apostate. They separated in 1890 when Official Declaration 1 was issued prohibiting the practice of plural marriage.
[/quote]

I bet they say the same thing about you. I think every church has this kind of problem (splinter groups). For example, Catholics have sedevacantists (sp?) and others.

condemning the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints based in Salt Lake for the actions and beliefs of a breakaway schismatic sect, makes as much sense as blaming the Catholic church for the actions of Branch Davidians, SSPX, radical Anglicans or any other breakaway sect.

I would have to say that the general LDS refusal to help people escape from FLDS, or help those who have been kicked out, speaks pretty negatively towards the LDS in itself. If they are so condemning of the “apostasy”, then why haven’t they done something about it? They know much more about FLDS culture than any other organization, but they just stand by and watch. Or are they secretly on Mr. Jeff’s side?

blaming the Catholic church for the actions of Branch Davidians

:nope: That analogy has no validity. Exactly how many schisms away from Catholicism were the Branch Dravidians?

[quote=Jerusha]I would have to say that the general LDS refusal to help people escape from FLDS, or help those who have been kicked out, speaks pretty negatively towards the LDS in itself. If they are so condemning of the “apostasy”, then why haven’t they done something about it? They know much more about FLDS culture than any other organization, but they just stand by and watch. Or are they secretly on Mr. Jeff’s side?

[/quote]

Hi Jerusha

This is argument for argument sake only. They have constitutional rights. If they have broken the law they will have to answer for it.

I’m sure if the Church as was suggested “[did] something about it” there would be critics that would shout that we are interfering with others believes, or some other acquisition to sell another book or tape or web site.

Paul

[quote=Jerusha]I would have to say that the general LDS refusal to help people escape from FLDS, or help those who have been kicked out, speaks pretty negatively towards the LDS in itself. If they are so condemning of the “apostasy”, then why haven’t they done something about it? They know much more about FLDS culture than any other organization, but they just stand by and watch. Or are they secretly on Mr. Jeff’s side?

:nope: That analogy has no validity. Exactly how many schisms away from Catholicism were the Branch Dravidians?
[/quote]

And just why did the Catholic church allow the Lutherans to break away? Or any of the other break away sects from Catholicism, and why don’t they try to tell them what to do, when they hear of some going against Catholic beliefs? I think that would be the same as the LDS Church trying to tell another religious group what to do. I too heard of these lost boys, many of them came to California where they are being helped. This is just plain silliness to think that the LDS church would have the power to make another church do what they want them to do. That would be like us trying to make the Catholic church believe what we believe. Not possible. Even the US government seems to have no control over these religious fanatics. Look how they handled the Branch Davidian and how they allow the Polygamist sects to flourish on the Utah/Arizona border and other places. Why can’t our government do something about this blatant breaking of the law? That is what I want to know. If there are any government workers in this forum, please answer this question?
BJ :confused:

[quote=Jerusha]I would have to say that the general LDS refusal to help people escape from FLDS, or help those who have been kicked out, speaks pretty negatively towards the LDS in itself. If they are so condemning of the “apostasy”, then why haven’t they done something about it? They know much more about FLDS culture than any other organization, but they just stand by and watch. Or are they secretly on Mr. Jeff’s side?
[/quote]

Who said anything about the LDS church not helping those who want to escape the FLDS or RLDS? What is your source on this?

[quote=Jerusha]That analogy has no validity. Exactly how many schisms away from Catholicism were the Branch Dravidians?
[/quote]

Perhaps a better analogy would be the Episcapals. If the Episcapal Church committed an act that the Catholic church found to be offensive, how much more would that offense be perpetuated if the Catholic faith were blamed for it?

.

general LDS refusal

If there has been extensive undercover and non-publicized effort to rescue people who want out, and care for the “excess boys”, which there may well be, I sincerely apologise.

There is a difference between that which is merely offensive, and offensive beliefs that lead to criminal acts, and criminal acts by religious groups. Related churches, once the rift has become established, should continue to serve as checks and balances against each other. In a civil manner and friendly manner, such as relationships are presently with our close cousins, the Episcopalins and the Lutherans and the Eastern Orthodox.

Look how they handled the Branch Davidian

I think the feds have moved in carefully on this BECAUSE of the debacle at Waco.

I have seen the infants’ graves on TV, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they died for genetic reasons because of consanguous relathonships.

Jerusha,
The problem is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is no more related to the RLDS or FLDS than the Catholics are to any other religion that broke off.
We do not know these people and we have no contact with them. If the boys came to any of us for help, we would help them, as we help any people who need and ask for our help.
Why hasn’t the Catholic Church stepped in and helped these boys? They belong to your church as much as they belong to ours, so they are your responsibility too.
The real problem is that the US government has let them get away with breaking the law, the same as they coddle illegal aliens, if they enforced the law these cults would not exist, because the leaders would all be in prison and the people they rule would be free. It is a crime and should be treated as such.
BJ

BJ:

:ehh: :hmmm: Whatever.

To others:

:wink:

Jerusha,
I don’t understand your smugness on this issue. Why are you suggesting our church is responsible for a group that broke away from us 115 years ago? I won’t blame the RCC for things Protestants do wrong and would expect the same courtesy of you.

[quote=BJ Colbert]Jerusha,
The problem is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is no more related to the RLDS or FLDS than the Catholics are to any other religion that broke off.
We do not know these people and we have no contact with them. If the boys came to any of us for help, we would help them, as we help any people who need and ask for our help.
Why hasn’t the Catholic Church stepped in and helped these boys? They belong to your church as much as they belong to ours, so they are your responsibility too.
The real problem is that the US government has let them get away with breaking the law, the same as they coddle illegal aliens, if they enforced the law these cults would not exist, because the leaders would all be in prison and the people they rule would be free. It is a crime and should be treated as such.
BJ
[/quote]

All churches that considers themselves Christian are splintered in some way or another from the Roman Catholic Church including the LDS…someone else earlier mentioned that they were aposate…apostate to whom the LDS? The definition of apostate is a deserter: a disloyal person who betrays or deserts his cause or religion or political party or friend etc…I contend that all non Roman Catholics are APOSTATE. All non Roman Catholics deserted Gods Church founded in scripture.

[quote=stumbler] The 10,000-strong FLDS
[/quote]

This is a large number of people. I have a difficult time understanding how something so wrong can get to be so big. My sympathy goes out to the surplus boys.

I’m sorry, but you are again misunderstanding me. I do not blame the LDS church for the FLDS church problems. I am only saying that there ought to be more compassion and involvement in the face of human suffering in an organization that has close cultural ties with the LDS church.Personally, as I have made clear before, polygamy is not a critical issue to me. When polygamy involves child sexual abuse, degradation of women, dumping of unwanted males, and “marriage” between closely related people in an already inbred community, it does become a problem.

The real problem is that the US government has let them get away with breaking the law, the same as they coddle illegal aliens, if they enforced the law these cults would not exist, because the leaders would all be in prison and the people they rule would be free. It is a crime and should be treated as such.

If the Government had really cracked down in the 1840’s, your “cult” wouldn’t exist today.

What I find odd is that the LDS capitulated on the issue of polygamy just because the U.S. government said so. If polygamy is allowable by God through your “true” religion-why bow down to the U.S. government?

Can you imagine if the U.S. government passed a law that required, for instance, that the Catholic Church in the U.S. have nothing to do with the Vatican? No true man of the Church would ever bow down to their illegitimate and illicit law.

[quote=ComradeAndrei]If the Government had really cracked down in the 1840’s, your “cult” wouldn’t exist today.

What I find odd is that the LDS capitulated on the issue of polygamy just because the U.S. government said so. If polygamy is allowable by God through your “true” religion-why bow down to the U.S. government?

Can you imagine if the U.S. government passed a law that required, for instance, that the Catholic Church in the U.S. have nothing to do with the Vatican? No true man of the Church would ever bow down to their illegitimate and illicit law.
[/quote]

Why not? This is exactly what China has done. The problem is your thinking of this from an democratic point of view, where law’s are mandated by the people and not imposed upon the people.

[quote=ComradeAndrei]If the Government had really cracked down in the 1840’s, your “cult” wouldn’t exist today.
[/quote]

By definition, all organized religion is a “cult”, Yours, theirs and Mine. Deny it all you want but until you get Meriam Webster to change the dictionary, your not going to change the fact.

As for your statement that the LDS church would not exist today if the government had cracked down on them in the 1840’s, that is false too. How many times have various government agencies cracked down on Christianity, beginning with the Romans in 33 CE with the Crucifixion of Jesus himeself? How many times have Catholics been hunted with the intent to extinguish the word of God? And don’t even get me started on the Cathars.

.

Why not? This is exactly what China has done. The problem is your thinking of this from an democratic point of view, where law’s are mandated by the people and not imposed upon the people.

Huh? No, I mean that if the U.S. government (or even just the locals) had decided (legally or not) to crack down on the Mormons, kill them off, whatever, they probably would have went the way of many other begining religions-as a historical footnote.

By definition, all organized religion is a “cult”, Yours, theirs and Mine. Deny it all you want but until you get Meriam Webster to change the dictionary, your not going to change the fact.

Hence the quotation marks-that is exactly what I am saying that all religions can be “cults” depending upon who is looking at them. Then we also have things like the “cult” or Mary or the “cult” of the Saints that just have to do with veneration and not an actual religion. Yes, I am quite aware of what a cult is.

How many times have various government agencies cracked down on Christianity, beginning with the Romans in 33 CE with the Crucifixion of Jesus himeself? How many times have Catholics been hunted with the intent to extinguish the word of God?

You are proving my point. Look at all the Catholic martyrs that went to the cross or to the lions because they wouldn’t give up offerings to the “divine” Roman emperor or to their false gods. No matter what, they stuck to their doctrines and beliefs and then eventually the whole Roman Empire became Catholic.

The U.S. government says that polygamy is illegal, so the Mormons change their practices. Some disagree and break off. If I were to believe in the LDS church, I wouldn’t want the decisions made by the secular government.

The Cathars were dangerous heretics and it was a beneficial thing for Europe and all of civilization that their cult was supressed. Had Catharism taken over Europe, I have no doubts that the Muslims would have taken us too. However, that just isn’t going to happen when the gates of hell won’t prevail agains the Church.

[quote=BJ Colbert] The real problem is that the US government has let them get away with breaking the law, the same as they coddle illegal aliens, if they enforced the law these cults would not exist, because the leaders would all be in prison and the people they rule would be free. It is a crime and should be treated as such.
BJ
[/quote]

Polygamy should not be a crime if it’s between consenting adults. It’s nobody’s business what goes on in the bedroom of willing adults who claim to be following their religion. This is even more true in light of the lack of morals in our society at large. Laws against sodomy are still on the books in Utah but there’s nary a word about prosecuting homosexuals. Why is this? It’s because it’s politically correct to prosecute polygamists and politically incorrect to even criticize homosexuality at all. Prosecution of polygamists just because “it’s the law” is cowardice at it’s worse.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.