1 billion members?


#21

[quote=Mijoy2]So sorry to depress. As I said I qualify this by it being my own personal experience having grown up in a Catholic household, having all Catholic aunts uncles and cousins. Having had mostly all Catholic friends and over 30 years in the work place having had mostly Catholic co-workers. I can honestly say that, with the possible exception of one cousin that I just recalled, I never met anybody who either exhibited, professed, or displayed to me that they held to all church teachings (or even most).

For anybody who has read some of my posts this may explain my being frequently disturbed over issues of mortal sin, salvation and the like. Further more, I don’t think most Catholics who do not follow certain teachings (contraception, mass obligation, and self-gratification come to mind) fully understand that the Church teaches these things are a sin and grave sins at that. I think they simply think the Church frowns upon it.

Maybe it has something to do with my demographic. I don’t get the same idea from reading these forums. I appears many of the people here have family and friends they can share thier faith with. Which must be a wonderful thing.
[/quote]

I would have to agree Mijoy - but I am hopeful that in other less secular countries things are different.


#22

[quote=twf]Semper Fi: The figures we see are the number of baptized Catholics (who have not formally left the Church). I can assure you (sadly) that there are not one billion practicing Catholics in the world. There are some 67 million Catholics in the US, for example, but only about one in four of these baptized persons actually attend mass.
[/quote]

twf, it is not the number of baptized Catholics.


#23

Semper Fi: You are the first person I’ve ever heard make this claim. Could you please back it up? Just to clarify, you are saying that there are one billion persons in the pews?


#24

[quote=twf]Semper Fi: There are some 67 million Catholics in the US, for example, but only about one in four of these baptized persons actually attend mass.
[/quote]

I seem to remember that statistical studies as late as the last election indicated that about 35 to 40 % of those who call them selves Catholic go to Mass weekly. Then there are still some who do better than just Christmas and Easter.


#25

[quote=twf]Semper Fi: You are the first person I’ve ever heard make this claim. Could you please back it up? Just to clarify, you are saying that there are one billion persons in the pews?
[/quote]

hmmm gotta be something out there.

I know in my Paris there are over 1000 active families registered.

And we are one of the smaller Parishes in town.

Don’t forget children are people too.


#26

[quote=Magicsilence]Just wondered what everyone thought the actual number of Catholics there are in the world.

Given that huge numbers dont listen to Church on some issues, contraception, etc…, what do you think the actual number of faithful Catholics is?

In Christ

Andre.
[/quote]

The more, the better ! :thumbsup:


#27

Here in the Philippines Masses are always packed to overflowing. My local church has 10 Masses on a Sunday and they are all full and speakers are needed so that people standing outside, even in the street can hear everything.
I would hazard a guess and say Mass attendence in this country is probably about 80%.


#28

[quote=thistle]Here in the Philippines Masses are always packed to overflowing. My local church has 10 Masses on a Sunday and they are all full and speakers are needed so that people standing outside, even in the street can hear everything.
I would hazard a guess and say Mass attendence in this country is probably about 80%.
[/quote]

That is very, very, good! :thumbsup:


#29

There aren’t a lot of Catholics in Japan but in my parish about 90% attend Mass on Sundays. The number of people going to confession is also very high.

Gearoidin


#30

Thge number was just published for 2004 - check this excerpt from ZENIT:

VATICAN CITY, FEB. 19, 2006 (Zenit.org).- The number of Catholics in the world grew in 2004, not as fast as the overall population, but the number of priests also increased, according the new Pontifical Yearbook.

There were 1.098 billion Catholics in the world, reveals the 2006 edition of the Pontifical Yearbook, presented to Benedict XVI on Saturday.

The 2,400-page volume offers a numerical overview of the state of the Catholic Church at year-end 2004, the latest date for which data are available.

A Vatican communiqué summarizing some of the data revealed that “between the year 2003 and 2004 Catholics in the world increased from 1.086 billion to 1.098 billion, a growth of 12 million faithful, equivalent to a 1.1% increase.”

The communiqué noted that the world population in the same period grew to 6.388 billion from 6.301 billion.

Hence, “One observes that the relative presence of baptized Catholic faithful decreased by 1 per thousand, decreasing from 17.2 Catholics per 100 inhabitants in 2003 to 17.1 per 100 in the following year.”

The Pontifical Yearbook shows that “the tendency to growth in the number of priests continued in 2004.”

“In that year, the total number of priests was 405,891,” two-thirds of whom are diocesan clergy, one-third religious, the yearbook notes.

“On the whole, priests increased between 2003 and 2004 by 441,” the Vatican statement said. “In the face of the considerable increase in Asia and Africa, where an increase is registered in the same period of 1,422 and 840 priests, respectively, there is a stationary situation in America and Oceania, while in Europe there has been a decrease of 1,876.”

Deacons

The number of permanent deacons rose 2.5%, to 32,324. About four-fifths of them are in North America and Europe.

“Candidates to the priesthood, diocesan and religious, present a positive evolution globally, increasing from 112,373 in 2003 to 113,044 in 2004,” the Vatican statement said.

“However, in this case there are reasons for concern in Europe, where in the last years the decline is evident. On the contrary, Africa and Asia show an encouraging vitality of vocations,” explained the Vatican communiqué.

The Pontifical Yearbook was presented to the Pope by Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Vatican secretary of state, and by Archbishop Leonardo Sandri, substitute of the Secretariat of State for general affairs.

Monsignor Vittorio Formenti, director of the Church’s Central Statistical Office, coordinated the writing of the latest yearbook.

The yearbook will go on sale within days. See www.libreriaeditricevaticana.com.


#31

[quote=twf]Semper Fi: The figures we see are the number of baptized Catholics (who have not formally left the Church). I can assure you (sadly) that there are not one billion practicing Catholics in the world. There are some 67 million Catholics in the US, for example, but only about one in four of these baptized persons actually attend mass.
[/quote]

Exactly my point.

God Bless,
Richard


#32

[quote=Magicsilence]Just wondered what everyone thought the actual number of Catholics there are in the world.

Given that huge numbers dont listen to Church on some issues, contraception, etc…, what do you think the actual number of faithful Catholics is?

In Christ

Andre.
[/quote]

Your question is a bit hard to answer as we are all at our own stage of conversion. To say that a baptised brethren is less Catholic because she hasn’t been blessed with the same level of conversion as me is arrogant at best. To say she is not an “actual” Catholic is to say her baptism didn’t mean as much as mine. Christ doesn’t love me more than her because I follow the Church’s teachings and she doesn’t. Given this gift of faith, I have a responsibility to reach out to her and plant the seed of faith that will hopefully germinate within her heart and the Holy Spirit will cause to grow. So if 90% of Catholics aren’t following the teachings of the Church, then that just means I have a lot of seeds to sew.


#33

The 1 billion number is about as accurate as the ever changing 30,000+/- protestant denominations figure always thrown around. :rolleyes: Totally bogus.


#34

awalt,

Most excellent post!!
A wealth of information.

I had no idea there were that many preists. :smiley:

Going back to myjoy2’s posts earlier…Maybe there is less than 1 percent practicing Catholics around you because we do live in the land of the plenty, and people tend to ease God out when they are prosperous.

The later posts about practicing members in the Phillipines, Asia and Africa were very encouraging. :thumbsup:

When people don’t have anything, they tend to lean on God a little more.

“blesses are the poor” I think Jesus sais that

Peace and love from Longhorn country :wink:


#35

[quote=squeekster]The 1 billion number is about as accurate as the ever changing 30,000+/- protestant denominations figure always thrown around. :rolleyes: Totally bogus.
[/quote]

I don’t agree that the number of baptised Catholics as being 1 billion is equivalent to the number of Protestant denominations being counted. If you read the Zenit article only several posts above you, you will see that these numbers are published by the Vatican. I know for a fact that my parish regularly counts the numbers of people attending different Masses. It is important for the Church to keep accurate records of its members for many reasons, including decisions about where priests are most needed when assigning the newly ordained. The number of Protestant denominations as being 30,000+ is not the result of a Vatican study so I don’t see the purpose of paralleling those numbers. I think the real reason that the Protestants who have responded to this thread with incredulity have done so is the simple fact that they would like to believe the Church is dying. I assure you that, the Church is alive and vibrant.


#36

I’m pretty sure it relies upon self-identification in a variety of published records. So, for example, in a census it will ask your religion etc. It would therefore include nominal Catholics etc., but wouldn’t include people, like ex-Catholics, who no longer self-identify as Catholic.

I don’t believe it is based upon Church attendance, nor baptisms, both of which are far less accurate that ‘self-identification’.


#37

The original poster wasn’t asking how many people go to mass regularily (seems to be the direction the thread has taken), I beleive he was asking what the number of faithfull Catholics are.

I piped in with 1-10% as an estimate (leaning more towards the 1%). The number of Catholics I know that go to mass regularily is higher. However they do not believe they need to follow church teachings.

In other words they go to mass regularily but not always. I know that contraception and other activities that go counter to church teachings are practiced. (most of my friends are men and we know how men talk…there are few secrets).

This is where my very low estimate came from.


#38

Eden - you are correct! In my archdiocese, once a year there is a “census” taken. The priest asks people to fill out the little card (as I recall it has basic demographics on it), the Priest says the archdiocese uses it to do manpower loading, budget allocations, etc. In other words, it wants to know how many people are at each Church on a representative Sunday. There are other business dealings with the Vatican (I think each diocese sends money to the Vatican, don’t they?), so I would bet this census information is rolled up. So it’s as accurate as anything human beings can probably do.


#39

[quote=squeekster]The 1 billion number is about as accurate as the ever changing 30,000+/- protestant denominations figure always thrown around. :rolleyes: Totally bogus.
[/quote]

I don’t know but I’ve been told that the 30,000 number is from US IRS records of the number organizations claiming tax exempt status under the “religion” category.

Like most raw numbers it would probably have to be looked at more closely to see what criteria the government uses to classify something as a religion. It may just be a general number for tax-exempt charitable organization.

So while the number may not be precise, it is hardly bogus. The actual number is probably of the same order of magnitude.

Down where I live the woods are full of these little, one-congregation, churches. Some of them just have a few dozen members.

As for the 1 billion Catholics figure, I don’t see why people appear to be complaining. This is a great thing.


#40

[quote=Eden]I don’t agree that the number of baptised Catholics as being 1 billion is equivalent to the number of Protestant denominations being counted.

The number of Protestant denominations as being 30,000+ is not the result of a Vatican study so I don’t see the purpose of paralleling those numbers.
[/quote]

My wish is that just once, if a Catholic is going to quote something I said, that they would actually respond to what I said instead of something I didn’t say or even imply.

I did NOT say that the number of baptised Catholics was equivilent to the number of Protestant denominations being counted. I did NOT even mention a Vatican study. And I did NOT parallel the numbers.

Here is what I ACTUALLY said

The 1 billion number is about as accurate as the ever changing 30,000+/- protestant denominations figure always thrown around. Totally bogus.

The 1 billion number includes people that left the Catholic church years ago but they are still on the roles because they still get mail from the church. Try as they might, they can’t get their name off of the list. And that also includes people that have been dead for 10+ years. Therefore, the 1 billion number is NOT accurate at all. At best it is HUGELY inflated.

And the 30,000+ protestant denominations is equally as bogus. First, because whoever traveled all over the world making up the “list” called every church with a different name on the door a different denomination. Of course, just to help their “cause” they claimed that every one of those “different denominations” all taught something different. And second, the number fluctuates between 30,000 and 33,000 depending on who is quoting it.


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