1 Corinthians 7 Question


#1

[BIBLEDRB]…3 Let the husband render the debt to his wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband. And in like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5 Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer; and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency. [/BIBLEDRB]

Regarding the above quoted chapter/verse in the Bible…As I understand it to mean that the Husband and Wife should not deny sex (with out a good reason like health, ect) unless mutually agreed upon.

I’d be more than happy to have sex with my wife every day (or more!). There have been many times where my wife is not interested in sex on a particular night for no specific reason, just not “in the mood”. She has often said she is willing to do it, just for me asking that I “Just be quick” :blush:

Now, I’m conflicted. I feel like if I do it while she is clearly not interested and just willing to because of her love for me and wanting me to be satisfied I am objectifying her which I know to be sinful. How would this act meet the ‘unitive’ requirement?

If I say no and just don’t do it because I know she is really not interested and I don’t want to objectify her I feel like I’m denying myself something that she is willingly offering and Biblically I’m “entitled” to (I feel entitled to is a bad choice of words here but I don’t know how else to put it).

Thoughts? Comments? Anything?


#2

Objectively you are not wrong to request relations. There is nothing wrong with desiring relations with your wife to avoid temptation. That being said a good husband is also concerned with her feelings (as you must be since you are asking the question).

Practically, if you do not need relations to avoid temptation on a given day, you ought not request relations, if you suspect she is not open to it. The marriage debt is "grave" matter, so if you guys aren't quite connecting it is best to try and work things out now with good communication. Perhaps there are a few things you can do that will increase her romantic moods (helping with out more with chores, going on dates, requesting on different days of the week). There also could be some minor (minor now not minor later if not addressed) issues that can be resolved by speaking with a priest of good catholic counselor.

Bottom line, is it is best to nip this in the bud, because it can turn into a real problem a few years down the road.


#3

Thanks for the response.

Just to clarify my understanding…Should I only be making this type of request if I feel it is to avoid temptation (I assume temptation to have an extramarital affair or masturbation?)? I had not heard that before. I don’t think I’ve thought “if I don’t get sex from my wife I’ll cheat (extramarital affair or MB)” ever and can’t imagine having those thoughts.

Regarding the bold part of your quote, that is where I’m somewhat unclear. She is most often open to it in that she wants to please me but not open to it in the sense that if I did not make the request she would not initiate. Even sometimes when she says she’s not in the mood but is willing for me she ends up enjoying it very much. If I ask and she says no I would not pressure her or anything like that, especially since she has some medical issues where its sometimes painful so if she says no that’s typically why she says no.

I agree that I can and should do more to increase her romantic moods and was just thinking of various ways I can do this just this morning.

***Side note, I feel like all most posts lately on CAF have been about sex, lol. I think my mind is just on that lately due to my wife’s inability to have sex for about 12 weeks due to a medical issue and surgery to fix it (as posted in another thread). :eek:


#4

It's prefectly fine for you to come to a mutual agreement not to have relations.

If you're a good, caring husband and you know you wife well enough to know when she is and isn't willing, that's good. Now, if her not wanting relations changes your mind and you are happy to wait until later and are not tempted to commit and immoral act as a result then no harm, no foul.

You should not expect that she'll be wanting relations everytime you do and it's not reasonable to expect her to have relations only because you do. Now, if you explain to her that you really need relations right now because you are tempted and she then refuses without a very good reason, then there's a problem.

For my wife and I, I generally don't want relations if I don't think she's totally agreeable to it. So, if she says no or just doesn't seem like she'd be in mood (see up all night with the baby and very tired) then I don't want it either. I'd prefer she get's her sleep. :thumbsup:

Now, if she's refusing relations often, without any reason and you are tempted to sin as a result then you have a problem. Particularly if she doesn't have a valid reason to deny relations.

We as men are not to act like cavemen and say, "Hey, Woman, come here. It's time for relations". If you are given proper respect for her feelsing and needs and she has no valid reason to refuse relations then she should want relations or at least allow you to try to get her in the mood.

Funny enough, people say this is a church teaching, yet it's not in the catechism. :confused:


#5

Thanks for the comments, I’m learning lots!

I guess what I need answered is the question If I want sex, just because I love my wife (though am not in danger of sinning in any way if I don’t get it) and she says something like “Go ahead but be quick” or some other phrase meaning I’m not really in the mood but I will because you want it, is it ok to do it?

I have, in the past, sometimes went ahead with it and sometimes did not. I want to make sure I’m not sinning if I take her up on her offer.

And to clarify its not like this is the only way I get sex or anything, but my wife may want it twice a week where as I want it 5-10 times per week (still, no worries on sinning even if its 0 times per week sometimes). Is it ok to say do 4-6 times per week with some of those times being times where she’s not really* in to it *but just a willing/loving participant?


#6

My husband and I had to learn a lot about this part of our relationship. We are still learning, and he has a ways to go but he is more and more willing to understand what this gift from God really is. I had to learn that just because I'm "not in the mood" doesn't mean that I don't love my husband and can't express that love by participating anyway. It has helped us tremendously. His appetite is far greater than mine, but it's fair for us to meet in the middle. He sacrifices the quantity for my sake, and I sacrifice the initial desire for his. We often have the same experience as you said, where I end up enjoying it far more than I thought I would have. There is a love there that is totally self-giving, this is what a marriage should be, and what the marriage act is based upon. Also, I trust him and know that he is giving only to me and desires this only because of me.

Your concern for your wife speaks volumes and I would venture to say that you are doing the right thing. If she is openly communicating with you, I don't believe there is any problem with your relationship, and you should not be concerned of some underlying matter (as the other poster warned). Be sure she feels comfortable discussing this with you. Have you asked her if she feels odd when you do participate in intimacy despite her lack of passion? It may be good to help her feel comfortable discussing this, sometimes even asking her if she needs or would like anything (would she like flowers? More physical attention during the day- this helped me). My husband and I talk openly about our physical relationship because we feel you can't take anything for granted. It needs work and changes as we change too, just like everything else.

If you are talking with your wife and she has expressed her willingness even out of love and not physical need, then you are loving her, whether you have sex or not.


#7

From a wife's point of view, I don't think taking her up on her offer is a sin, so long as you make the effort to help her enjoy it. Sometimes I respond to my husband in the same way, and though he rarely goes through with it, I do not feel used when he does. After all, I know with surety that I can just say 'no' and that will be the end of it. :thumbsup: As long as that's the case with your marriage (and it sounds like it is), I don't see a problem.

If you're really concerned though, ask your wife sometime when you're both completely disconnected from anything sexual. There may be a reason she responds this way that she's not comfortable divulging 'in the moment'. Communication is tough, even when sex isn't involved, so when it is, it can be a little overwhelming.


#8

[quote="snoot, post:6, topic:228378"]
My husband and I had to learn a lot about this part of our relationship. We are still learning, and he has a ways to go but he is more and more willing to understand what this gift from God really is. I had to learn that just because I'm "not in the mood" doesn't mean that I don't love my husband and can't express that love by participating anyway. It has helped us tremendously. His appetite is far greater than mine, but it's fair for us to meet in the middle. He sacrifices the quantity for my sake, and I sacrifice the initial desire for his. We often have the same experience as you said, where I end up enjoying it far more than I thought I would have. There is a love there that is totally self-giving, this is what a marriage should be, and what the marriage act is based upon. Also, I trust him and know that he is giving only to me and desires this only because of me.

Your concern for your wife speaks volumes and I would venture to say that you are doing the right thing. If she is openly communicating with you, I don't believe there is any problem with your relationship, and you should not be concerned of some underlying matter (as the other poster warned). Be sure she feels comfortable discussing this with you. Have you asked her if she feels odd when you do participate in intimacy despite her lack of passion? It may be good to help her feel comfortable discussing this, sometimes even asking her if she needs or would like anything (would she like flowers? More physical attention during the day- this helped me). My husband and I talk openly about our physical relationship because we feel you can't take anything for granted. It needs work and changes as we change too, just like everything else.

If you are talking with your wife and she has expressed her willingness even out of love and not physical need, then you are loving her, whether you have sex or not.

[/quote]

Thank You for your response!

We do talk about this openly for the most part. She knows she is freely giving herself out of love and seems to have no problem doing it. I think I'm maybe just over analyzing it for fear of making her feel objectified.

I frequently ask what she needs or likes. Her favorite thing in the world are foot rubs and I make it a point to give them to her almost every time she asks (and many times when she does not ask). I have often thought of her giving me sex when she's not in the mood in a similar way as me giving her a foot rub. Both are acts of love given for the other spouse. Clearly one is far more intimate than the other but still similar in many ways.

Marriage sure is a fun journey! We've been married 6 years now and we're still learning about each other all the time!


#9

[quote="limabeanerson, post:8, topic:228378"]
Thank You for your response!

We do talk about this openly for the most part. She knows she is freely giving herself out of love and seems to have no problem doing it. I think I'm maybe just over analyzing it for fear of making her feel objectified.

I frequently ask what she needs or likes. Her favorite thing in the world are foot rubs and I make it a point to give them to her almost every time she asks (and many times when she does not ask). I have often thought of her giving me sex when she's not in the mood in a similar way as me giving her a foot rub. Both are acts of love given for the other spouse. Clearly one is far more intimate than the other but still similar in many ways.

Marriage sure is a fun journey! We've been married 6 years now and we're still learning about each other all the time!

[/quote]

My wife loves back rubs and foot rubs. I often do them when I don't really want to, but then she sometimes humors me by allowing relations. In the end,we both generally end up happy. :)

My wife says I give excellent back rubs and I can often change her mind on things with a good back rub.


#10

:D:thumbsup: A good back rub can certainly go a long way. :wink:


closed #11

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