10 Lost Tribes


#1

I’m not sure if this is the place to post this. My BIL was telling us about the 10 Lost Tribes of Isreal, that they split up and settled in European nations. Because his family heritage is from Scotland he’s saying that this family is a decendent of one of those lost tribes. Does anyone have any information about this? My BIL listens to Arnold Murray from Shepherd’s Chapel on tv. Thanks!

God Bless!


#2

Help is just a click away:

catholic.com/library/Lost_Tribes_of_Israel.asp

I can’t believe this old theological chestnut (Armstrongism) is still around. Just goes to show when you appeal to peoples vanity, they’re ready to swallow the whole Rapala.


#3

Especially since it can’t be disputed. Spill a drop of ink into a pond and it disperses. It’s all still there, but you can’t see it, because it has thinned out till it doesn’t color anything. That’s how the tribes were. They were simply swallowed up by the places where Syria and Babylon sent them.


#4

It was been proven that the people of the Brittish Isles came form Northern Spain and Southern France.
By DNA testing.
Google Celts and Basques.


#5

Okay…

People of the British Isles came from all over Europe after numerous waves of invasions.


#6

I’m Scottish and I’ve never heard of that one.

I did have my DNA tested by the group headed by the professor of genetics at Oxford University and on my mother’s side I come from a woman who lived about 20,000 years ago in what is now the Basque region.
On my father’s side I am from a Celtic tribe.


#7

So I guess those angles, saxons, jutes, danes, and normans are all celts from hispania and gaul .


#8

I have a feeling the line for “tribes who did NOT settle in the British Isles” is shorter than the line for “tribes who DID settle in the British Isles”.


#9

Lol +1 for truthiness.


#10

I am a Catholic and I do believe that the Lost Tribes settled in Europe and became many of the European peoples of today, such as the Celts, Latins, Germanics, and Slavs. This does not contradict Catholic doctrine at all, it is just not many Catholics are aware of this. I have a lot of information on this subject, if you want to read about this, send me a PM.

I do not adhere to “British Israelism” or “Armstrongism”, as they are protestant religions and hold many heretical doctrines. Arnold Murray also holds these heretical doctrines such as ‘serpent-seed doctrine’ and annihilationism.


#11

I don’t think the tribes settled anywhere as tribes. Doesn’t Scripture plainly explain that the tribes were watered down when the Assyrians conquered Israel. They dispersed the 10 tribes among several other areas Assyria had conquered where the tribes inter-married with the locals and simply dissolved (as a Jewish entity that is).


#12

Long before Moses led the Children of Israel out of Egypt (Exodus-1453 BC) there had been continuous migration of Semitic Hebrews to Greece and other parts of Asia Minor and Europe. There are numerous references by classical writers to the “Egyptian” origin of the Greeks. Hecataeus of Abdere (sixth century BC) quoted by Diodorus Siculus (50 BC) tells us that the Egyptians “Expelled all the aliens gathered together in Egypt, The most distinguished of the expelled foreigners followed Danaus and Cadmus into Greece: the greater number were led by Moses into Judea.” (British History Traced from Egypt and Palestine, Rev. G.A. Roberts, p. 122).

Diodorus gives us another version of the same story: “Now the Egyptians say that also after these events a great number of colonies were spread from Egypt all over the inhabited world…They say also that those who set forth with Danaus, likewise from Egypt, settled what is practically the oldest city in Greece, Argos, and that the nation of the Colchi in Pontus and that of the Jews, (remnant of Judah) which lies between Arabia and Syria, were founded as colonies by certain emigrants from their country; and this is the reason why it is a long established institution among these people to circumcise their male children, the custom having been brought over from Egypt. Even the Athenians, they say, are colonists from Sais in Egypt.” (Diodorus of Sicily, G.H. Oldfather, 1933, vol. 1 bks. I-II, 1-34 pg. 91)

According to Euripides and Strabo: “Danaus having arrived in Argos made law that those who had borne the name of Pelasgiotae throughout Greece should be called Danai.” (Strabo v.ii.4) Compare this with the act of the people of Dan. (Judges 18:29) We further learn from Strabo and others that this Argos soon spread it’s name to the Peloponnesus and afterwards to all Greece, for he says, “Homer calls the whole of Greece Argos, for he calls all Argives, as he calls them Danai and Achaei.” (viii.6,3)

Argos is said by the Greeks to have been the birthplace of Hercules, but Herodotus, who went to some trouble to find out who Hercules really was, made a special voyage to Tyre (Strabo ii,44) and found an older Temple to Hercules. The daring adventures and exploits of the Grecian Hercules (Heracles) is probably those of semi-traders and buccaneers of Tyre and Dan. In Hebrew, “rakal” means to “trade” and “Heracleem” means “traders.” Those who went forth from Argos and subdued other parts of Greece are spoken of as “Heraclidae” or “descendants of Heracles.”

In the confusion caused by the Trojan War, apparently the “Heraclidae” were driven northward out of Peloponesus. Some years later when they made a re-conquest, they were called “the return of the descendants of Hercules.” (History of the Dorians by Muller) From the descendants of Hercules came the Lacedaemonians, whose capital was Sparta. Thus Agamemnon, who was chosen Commander-in-Chief of all the Greeks proceeding to the siege of Troy, was King of Argos and Mycenae, and his brother, Menelaus, was King of Sparta, capital of Lacedaemon.

It is noteworthy that the Lacedaemonians claim descent from Hebrews. It is recorded in 1 Maccabees 12, and Josephus’s Antiquities xii, iv 10, that about 180 years BC, the King of the Lacedaemonians sent the following letter to the Judahites in Jerusalem:[LIST]
]"Arius, king of the Spartans, to Onias, the high priest, greeting. It is found in writing concerning the Spartans, and the Jews , that they are brethren, and that they are of the stock of Abraham. And now since this is come to our knowledge, you do well to write to us of your prosperity." - 1 Maccabees 12:20-22[/LIST]The Judahites in Jerusalem are reported to have replied as follows: [LIST]
]“We joyfully received the epistle, and were well pleased with Demoteles and Araeus, although we did not need such a demonstration, because we were well satisfied about it from the sacred writings.”* - Josephus xiii. v.8[/LIST]Josephus called attention to the ‘seal’ upon he letter from Arius, “This letter is four-square, and the seal is an eagle with a dragon in it’s claws.” Such an emblem can be traced to the tribe of Dan. The letter of reply mentioned “sacred writings.” This could refer to Ezekiel 27:19 where Dan is represented, in company with Greece, trading to Tyre.

Latham, in his “Ethnology of Europe, p. 157, says that eponymus of the Argive Danai was none other than that of the Israelite Tribe of Dan, only we are so used to confine ourselves to the soils of Palestine in our consideration of the Israelites, that we treat them as if they were ‘adscrïpti glebae’, and ignore the share they may have taken in the ordinary history of the world…What a light would be thrown on the origin of the name Peloponnesus and the history of the Pelop-id family if a bona fide nation of Pelopes, with unequivical affinites and contemporary annals, had existed on the coast of Asia! Who would have hesitated to commect the two? Yet with the Danai and the Tribe of Dan this is the case, and noone connects them!”

In Herodotus’ time, the story of the Egyptian origin of the Greeks was so well recorded that he did not go into details, in his history. However, he did write: “If we ascend from Danae, the daughter of Acrisius, we shall find the ancestors of the Dorian princes were of Egyptian origin. Such is the Grecian account of their descent.” (Herodotus, Book VI, 1v.) The migrations out of Egypt led by Danaus and Cadmus are not the only ones on record. Another Grecian colony was founded by Cecrops (an Egyptian and an Israelite) who became the first “legendary” king of Attica.

A migration by sea (cir. 1296 BC) is indicated when the King of Canaan afflicted Israel while Dan abode in ships and Asher his seaports. (Judges 5:17) Apparently, most of the tribe of Dan must have left Palestine prior to the time of Jeroboam II (I Chron, 5:17-26) which would account for them not appearing in this genealogy. Many ancient Greek writers agree that the Danaans came to Argos from Egypt. (See Hesiod, fr. 24, Rzach) Most dates given fall around the first half of the sixteenth century BC. One early history of Ireland links the Danaan or Tuatha Dé Danann (People of God) invaders of Ulster with the Greek Danois and Spartans, who as roving bands of sea warriors controlled the Aegean Cretan civilization in the first millennium BC. Later Irish historians trace part of the tribe of Dan to Ireland as early as the twelfth century BC. This would have been after the Exodus when the Israelites were established in Palestine.

The largest wave of Israelites into Europe happened after the northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and the Israelites were taken into captivity starting in 740 BC and culminating in 721 BC. The Assyrians called the Israelites “Humri” or “Khumri”, however this name soon disappears from the Assyrian records. Within 15 years of the deportations of the Israelites to Assyria, in precisely the identical area into which Israel had been placed, there is the first appearance of a people called “Gimira” in the Assyrian records. This name “Gamira” or “Gamir” is evidently a corruption of the Assyrian “Khumri,” formed by reversing some of the letters, in this case IR for RI. Such inversions were common in the writings of the time. It is believed that the Israelites escaped Assyrian captivity through the Euphrates gorge. They later became notorious in Asia Minor when they overthrew King Midas of Phrygia. These were the western group of Gimera or Cimmerians, called Kimmeroi by the Greeks - another version of the Assyrian Khumri. These tribes escaped to the Black Sea in 679 BC. Most of the western Cimmerian group migrated up the Danube valley and settled there becoming the Celts of central Europe between 500 BC and 100 BC. Small numbers of Israelites followed Phoenician trade routes from the port of Miletus on the south-west coast of Asia Minor. Some settled for a time in Spain then moved on to Ireland. Others moved north and west into the sparcely inhabited regions of the Baltic, where they were given yet another name by the Romans - Cimbri, a name derived from Cimmerians. These people were the ancestors of the Picts and Jutes.

The Eastern group of Israelites were still dominated by the Assyrians. This eastern part of the Israelites, although known as Gimira, was also known to the Assyrians as Iskuza, a name derived from the name Isaac. One of the names the ancient Israelites used to describe themselves was “sons of Isaac.” In 573 BC, the Iskuza are mentioned for the first time in any historical document, locating them in Media in the very place where some of Israel had been put in captivity. The Greeks called the Iskuza the Scuthae or Scythians. After the fall of the Assyrian capital Nineveh in 612 BC, the main body of Scythian Israelites came under such pressure from the Medes that they were forced northwards through the Dariel Pass in the Caucasus mountains and into the steppe region of southern Russia. As wave after wave of these people were forced through the Caucasus, the leaders in the west crossed the rivers Don and Dniper and came into contact with Cimmerians Israelites who had earlier moved across the Black Sea, thus pushing them westward along the valley of the Danube into Central Europe. Although the Scythians established themselves in the area of southern Russia from the 6th to the 3rd centuries BC, they found themselves confined between a people known as the Sarmatians, advancing from the east and the Celts, who were already occupying Central Europe to the west. Consequently, they were forced northward towards the North Sea and the Baltic. This group formed the last of the migrating Israelites to arrive in the British Isles. The Anglo-Saxon group from the area now called Germany arriving between 400 and 600 AD. Others moving northwards through Jutland became known as Danes and Vikings. Others settled for a time in northern France and were known as Northmen or Normans.*


#13

DylanO, don’t you have enough trouble on your hands answering whether the Church of the Culdee are the first Catholics? :wink:

I understand that Jews settled everywhere. But as a group, I don’t know of it. For instance, where did the tribe of Ephraim settle?

My answer would be, parts of Ephraim were settled all over the Assyrian Empire, but only in small groups - groups that couldn’t keep their “Ephraim” identity. There would be exceptions, of course, but none of the examples you showed would prove to be the tribe of Ephraim for example.

This, of course, is my own opinion, the “Gospel of Notworthy”, as you will. It doesn’t necessarily represent the opinions of any other living person.


#14

I don’t particularly believe in the ‘Israelites migrating en masse to Europe’ theory. For one, if there were any Jews who ended up into the Western portion of the Old World, they would have been assimilated into whatever society they ended up in instead of the opposite (after all, there were already people in Europe such as proto-Germanic Tribes; it would be quite a stretch to imagine that masses of Israelites came, defeated these people and occupied their land).

The last we hear of the 10 Tribes is when the Assyrians under Shalmaneser V and then under Sargon II conquered the northern Kingdom of Israel in 722 BC, destroyed its capital Samaria and sent the Israelites into exile and captivity in Khorason, now part of eastern Iran and western Afghanistan. The theory depends heavily upon the concept of Israelites being “deported” upon the conquest of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms, aimed at suggesting a mass migration.

The Bible, however, states in 2 Kings 17 that the Israelites were conquered and enslaved, and carried off far to the East as slaves in the Assyrian and Babylonian Empires. Thus, not only were the Israelites not free to wander about Europe, but they were last seen much farther to the East than assumed by the theory. Plus, how did the Israelites got free from captivity in what is today Iraq and Iran and migrated over a thousand miles en masse on foot?

The geographical challenges of the theory are never explained, in that the Bible places the Israelites’ last known position deep within a hostile empire unwilling to allow the Israelite slaves to escape. Travel of escaping Israelites through the entire length of the Assyrian Empire to the West would seem highly improbable as opposed to escape — if any such escape occurred — to the North into what is today Southern Russia or to the East toward China. Thus an Israelite origin for Europe would be far less probable than an Israelite origin for the Russian people directly to the North of the Israelites’ last known location.

And finally, why doesn’t anyone talk about the equal possibility of Israelites being the ancestors of (at least some) Eastern Europeans, Russians and/or Asians, as mentioned above (There is even this theory that states that the Japanese are the descendants of the Lost Tribes, citing some similarities between Japanese and Hebrew culture)?


#15

If Israelites migrated en-masse to Europe, it would be noted during the major Jewish Festivals when “those European Jews” showed up.


#16

All of this theory depends on the idea that there are “10 lost tribes of Israel”…
I will certainly defer to any of our Jewish posters if they say otherwise, but my understanding is, that the Jewish people are a lot more aware of their ancestry than most non-Jews would imagine…
Now, were there/are there “lost individuals”? That is, are there folks with no clue as to their having some Jewish ancestry? Sure. But I really don’t think that the 10 tribes are anywhere nearly as “lost” as Arnold Murray & Co think that they are.


#17

Shepherd’s Chapel is bad news.

He teaches that there were two creations and that the original sin was not the disobedience of the fruit of the tree, but that Eve had sex with the snake and that Cain and Able were twins born of different fathers. Cain of the devil in the serpent and Able from Adam.

How do I know? I sat through two or three of their “Bible studies”.
:rolleyes: :hypno: :juggle: :whacky: :whistle:


#18

The translation of Tuatha Dé Danann as “peoples of the goddess Danu” is necessarily imprecise. Old Irish tuath (plural tuatha) means “people, tribe, nation”; and dé is the genitive case of día, “god, goddess, supernatural being, object of worship” (they are often referred to simply as the Tuatha Dé, a phrase also used to refer to the Israelites in early Irish Christian texts).

Danann is also a genitive, for which the nominative case is not attested. It has been reconstructed as Danu, which by analogy with Anu is taken to be a female name. The name of the river Danube is believed to be Celtic in origin, and Celtic river deities are usually female; and Hindu mythology has a water-goddess called Danu, who may be an Indo-European parallel. However, this reconstruction is not universally accepted. It is also written Donann and Domnann, which may link them with the Fir Domnann (“men of the Domnainn”), a people associated with the Fir Bolg in myth, who are historically attested in Connacht and may be related to the British Dumnonii.

The Danaan Greeks of Homer’s Iliad ('Tribe of Danaus; also known as the Achaeans) are not connected in any way to the Tuatha Dé Danann. The spelling “Danaan” is an anglicisation of the Greek Δαναοί (Danaoi) and its similarity to “Danann” is coincidental.

The largest wave of Israelites into Europe happened after the northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and the Israelites were taken into captivity starting in 740 BC and culminating in 721 BC. The Assyrians called the Israelites “Humri” or “Khumri”, however this name soon disappears from the Assyrian records. Within 15 years of the deportations of the Israelites to Assyria, in precisely the identical area into which Israel had been placed, there is the first appearance of a people called “Gimira” in the Assyrian records. This name “Gamira” or “Gamir” is evidently a corruption of the Assyrian “Khumri,” formed by reversing some of the letters, in this case IR for RI. Such inversions were common in the writings of the time. It is believed that the Israelites escaped Assyrian captivity through the Euphrates gorge. They later became notorious in Asia Minor when they overthrew King Midas of Phrygia. These were the western group of Gimera or Cimmerians, called Kimmeroi by the Greeks - another version of the Assyrian Khumri. These tribes escaped to the Black Sea in 679 BC. Most of the western Cimmerian group migrated up the Danube valley and settled there becoming the Celts of central Europe between 500 BC and 100 BC. Small numbers of Israelites followed Phoenician trade routes from the port of Miletus on the south-west coast of Asia Minor. Some settled for a time in Spain then moved on to Ireland. Others moved north and west into the sparcely inhabited regions of the Baltic, where they were given yet another name by the Romans - Cimbri, a name derived from Cimmerians. These people were the ancestors of the Picts and Jutes.

To be fair, one could read “Omri” as “G’mri” since it starts with the Hebrew letter ‘ayin which does seem to have been pronounced with a guttural “g” sound (this is why the Hebrew word for Gomorrah, one of the cities destroyed alongside Sodom, was transliterated into the Septuagint as starting with the Greek letter gamma). And there is room to think that Omri and Khumri are the same word, based on the consensus of scholarship for some time. (Interestingly, “Omri” is transliterated “Ambri” in the LXX, not “Gambri,” but this may have as much to do with the LXX translation methods and history as anything.) So this might have some truth to it.

The Eastern group of Israelites were still dominated by the Assyrians. This eastern part of the Israelites, although known as Gimira, was also known to the Assyrians as Iskuza, a name derived from the name Isaac. One of the names the ancient Israelites used to describe themselves was “sons of Isaac.”

In 573 BC, the Iskuza are mentioned for the first time in any historical document, locating them in Media in the very place where some of Israel had been put in captivity. The Greeks called the Iskuza the Scuthae or Scythians. After the fall of the Assyrian capital Nineveh in 612 BC, the main body of Scythian Israelites came under such pressure from the Medes that they were forced northwards through the Dariel Pass in the Caucasus mountains and into the steppe region of southern Russia. As wave after wave of these people were forced through the Caucasus, the leaders in the west crossed the rivers Don and Dniper and came into contact with Cimmerians Israelites who had earlier moved across the Black Sea, thus pushing them westward along the valley of the Danube into Central Europe. Although the Scythians established themselves in the area of southern Russia from the 6th to the 3rd centuries BC, they found themselves confined between a people known as the Sarmatians, advancing from the east and the Celts, who were already occupying Central Europe to the west. Consequently, they were forced northward towards the North Sea and the Baltic. This group formed the last of the migrating Israelites to arrive in the British Isles. The Anglo-Saxon group from the area now called Germany arriving between 400 and 600 AD. Others moving northwards through Jutland became known as Danes and Vikings. Others settled for a time in northern France and were known as Northmen or Normans.

One or two prophetic references to Israel as “Isaac” do not suggest to us that other countries’ historians would have thought of Israel as “Isaac” in any way. The second objection is in the name itself; is it possible that “Yitzchak,” the most literal transliteration of Isaac’s name in Hebrew, could have become “Iskuza” in an Assyrian or Babylonian or even Persian language? Remember that in Hebrew the name starts with a consonant, is followed by tzadee (which admittedly often doesn’t make it through transliteration) and then ultimately ends with that “k” sound. There are several steps from “Yitzchak” to “Iskuza,” and while such things do happen all the time, I don’t know that we can base our whole historical theory on this without, let’s be honest, a shred of evidence.

As for Scythians, there are now no less than nine different people groups that have been identified as being called “Scythians,” and they are recognized as having come down from Russia or as far away as Mongolia. They have some distinct characteristics, none of which are recognizable as Hebrew characteristics. Their language has no more similarity than any of the other ancient languages have; their dress, what little we know of their worship and culture — none of it is recognizable as ancient Israelite. Perhaps they completely assimilated, you may say? It is possible, but unlikely, and it would have had to happen within a generation.


#19

Yes, that is correct, there was more than one nation of people known as Scythians. In the first century, Josephus noted: “Magog founded those that from him were called Magogites, but who by the Greeks called Scythians.” The descendants of Magog then, formed a branch of the eastern Scythians.

Of the several nations were known as Scythians; at least one was European in race (these later migrated into central Europe, and were not descendants of Magog or Ashkenaz), and at least two Asiatic races. In fact, according to The Cambridge Ancient History, vol 3: 195, many of the Scythians which came against Assyria were Mongoloid.

I’d have to disagree. Steven M. Collins, in his article The Israelite Origin of the Scythians, points out numerous similarities between the cultures of the Scythians and the ancient Hebrews.


#20

especially ludicrous since there were no European nations at the time the northern and southern kingdoms split and the 10 tribes got lost in the first place.


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