2 LOH questions


#1

I have the Christian Prayer one-volume edition. I'm already familiar with parts of LOH but I had two specific questions:

  1. How/when does one know when to use which parts of the prayers from the commons of the saints?

For example, today I found (checking myself with my phone's ibreviary app) that most of the psalms came from the ordinary Saturday week IV liturgy, but the reading, intercessories, and responsories came from the Common of Holy Women--which says to use "psalms and canticle from Sunday, Week I. Sunday Week I's psalms are not the same as those of Saturday Week IV. Furthermore, the entry for Elizabeth of Hungary says to use the common of women who helped the poor or something like that, which is a totally different set of reading, responsories, etc, than the regular common of holy women, and which is not what my ibreviary app shows.

  1. Is there an efficient/effective way to use the one volume Christian prayer's Office of Readings selections without outside books? Eg, aside from going to my bible and a spiritual reading of my choosing, is there a schedule or method using just the selections that can be repeated cyclically?

Oh, I just thought of a third question.

  1. I don't normally pray daytime prayer at this moment in my life, but I'm interested in gradually integrating it as my schedule permits. Again with the one-volume, how would I go about doing that? The layout of it seems really confusing to me right now. I dont get the whole 'complimentary psalm 1 and 2' or whatever it says. Is daytime prayer sorta like the OOR with the one volume book--selections, but not possible to be prayed fully?

Thanks, and I hope my questions arent confusing ;)


#2

[quote="CredoUnumDeum, post:1, topic:305393"]

  1. Is there an efficient/effective way to use the one volume Christian prayer's Office of Readings selections without outside books? Eg, aside from going to my bible and a spiritual reading of my choosing, is there a schedule or method using just the selections that can be repeated cyclically?

[/quote]

Not really.


#3

[quote="CredoUnumDeum, post:1, topic:305393"]
I have the Christian Prayer one-volume edition. I'm already familiar with parts of LOH but I had two specific questions:

  1. How/when does one know when to use which parts of the prayers from the commons of the saints?

For example, today I found (checking myself with my phone's ibreviary app) that most of the psalms came from the ordinary Saturday week IV liturgy, but the reading, intercessories, and responsories came from the Common of Holy Women--which says to use "psalms and canticle from Sunday, Week I. Sunday Week I's psalms are not the same as those of Saturday Week IV. Furthermore, the entry for Elizabeth of Hungary says to use the common of women who helped the poor or something like that, which is a totally different set of reading, responsories, etc, than the regular common of holy women, and which is not what my ibreviary app shows.

[/quote]

The answer to this is in the Ordinary. The rubrics there contain a wealth of information. In brief:

Elizabeth of Hungary is a Memorial, therefore:

Invitatory antiphon - weekday or Common.
Hymn - weekday or Common
Psalms and Canticles - Weekday (Saturday, Week IV)
Reading and responsory - Weekday or Common.
Antiphon for Canticle of Zechariah/Mary - Proper, if specified, otherwise Common or Weekday.
Intercessions - Common or Weekday
Collect - Proper

You do not use the Sunday Week I Psalms and Canticles unless the celebration is elevated to a Feast or Solemnity (e.g. in the parish church of St. Elizabeth of Hungary).

As for the Common, if the book says the Common is for those who worked for the underprivileged, then the book trumps the app.


#4

[quote="CredoUnumDeum, post:1, topic:305393"]
2. Is there an efficient/effective way to use the one volume Christian prayer's Office of Readings selections without outside books? Eg, aside from going to my bible and a spiritual reading of my choosing, is there a schedule or method using just the selections that can be repeated cyclically?

[/quote]

The one-volume Christian Prayer isn't intended to give you the full Office of Readings. I'd recommend that you use iBreviary or DivineOffice.org if you want to pray the O.R. and don't feel like getting the four-volume set...

I don't normally pray daytime prayer at this moment in my life, but I'm interested in gradually integrating it as my schedule permits. Again with the one-volume, how would I go about doing that? The layout of it seems really confusing to me right now. I dont get the whole 'complimentary psalm 1 and 2' or whatever it says. Is daytime prayer sorta like the OOR with the one volume book--selections, but not possible to be prayed fully?

If you're praying one of the daytime hours, then just use the 'current' psalms, and the appropriate reading (depending on whether you're praying 'mid-morning', 'midday', or 'mid-afternoon'). (You would only use the complementary psalms if you were praying more than one daytime hour.)


#5

[quote="Gorgias, post:4, topic:305393"]
The one-volume Christian Prayer isn't intended to give you the full Office of Readings. I'd recommend that you use iBreviary or DivineOffice.org if you want to pray the O.R. and don't feel like getting the four-volume set...

If you're praying one of the daytime hours, then just use the 'current' psalms, and the appropriate reading (depending on whether you're praying 'mid-morning', 'midday', or 'mid-afternoon'). (You would only use the complementary psalms if you were praying more than one daytime hour.)

[/quote]

Further, Daytime Prayer is incomplete in Christian Prayer, with only a one-week selection. Christian Prayer is not ideal for Daytime Prayer or the Office of Readings. I would even go so far as to say don't even try. If you want to pray Daytime Prayer, purchase the Daytime Prayer supplement from Catholic Book Publishing Co.


#6

[quote="CredoUnumDeum, post:1, topic:305393"]
I have the Christian Prayer one-volume edition. I'm already familiar with parts of LOH but I had two specific questions:

[/quote]

First of all, let me go ahead and "plug" my CAF social group, The Fellowship of the Breviary, inviting you and everyone else interested in the LOTH to join.

  1. How/when does one know when to use which parts of the prayers from the commons of the saints? For example, today I found (checking myself with my phone's ibreviary app) that most of the psalms came from the ordinary Saturday week IV liturgy, but the reading, intercessories, and responsories came from the Common of Holy Women--which says to use "psalms and canticle from Sunday, Week I... Sunday Week I's psalms are not the same as those of Saturday Week IV. Furthermore, the entry for Elizabeth of Hungary says to use the common of women who helped the poor or something like that, which is a totally different set of reading, responsories, etc, than the regular common of holy women, and which is not what my ibreviary app shows.

The rubric instructions you see listed for each holy day can be misleading. Material is drawn from the "week" and/or a common depending on the ranking of the holy day at hand (i.e., whether or not it is commemoration, memorial, feast or solemnity). The specific rules for this are found in the "Ordinary" section of Christian Prayer. It is found on pages 685-698. Today's holy day (for St. Elizabeth of Hungary) is a memorial, so the instructions concerning memorials are in place. Keep in mind that once Saturday evening sets in, the vigil for Sunday is celebrated in the Church's liturgies (including LOTH), bumping memorials and most other feast days of saints.

  1. Is there an efficient/effective way to use the one volume Christian prayer's Office of Readings selections without outside books? Eg, aside from going to my bible and a spiritual reading of my choosing, is there a schedule or method using just the selections that can be repeated cyclically?

The OR in Christian Prayer is an extremely abbreviated version of this office. You can use Christian Prayer without having to resort to outside books, but the selection of readings (for both the first and second reading) will be limited. The only schedule I am aware of for Christian Prayer's version of OR is in the St. Joseph Guide for Christian Prayer, which is published each year, beginning with the First Sunday of Advent (so people will soon be using the 2013 edition). Nevertheless, I don't think there is an official schedule for the Christian Prayer version of OR (unlike the OR found in the Four-Volume LOTH) other than to pick readings from the appropriate liturgical season or common. So I think that the St. Joseph Guide is offering suggestions (in keeping with the rubrics) in order to achieve the greatest variety.

If you desire greater variety with OR then I concur with Gorgias' statement in Post #4 above.

Unfortunately, I have run out of time at the moment, so I will have to examine your third question later.


#7

I urge anyone who is new to the LOTH to carefully read the General Instruction of the LOTH and the Ordinary for each hour. Post here at CAF with specific questions; there is a wealth of knowledge available here. (Porthos in particular :) and many others.)


#8

[quote="porthos11, post:3, topic:305393"]
The answer to this is in the Ordinary. The rubrics there contain a wealth of information. In brief:

Elizabeth of Hungary is a Memorial, therefore:

Invitatory antiphon - weekday or Common.
Hymn - weekday or Common
Psalms and Canticles - Weekday (Saturday, Week IV)
Reading and responsory - Weekday or Common.
Antiphon for Canticle of Zechariah/Mary - Proper, if specified, otherwise Common or Weekday.
Intercessions - Common or Weekday
Collect - Proper

You do not use the Sunday Week I Psalms and Canticles unless the celebration is elevated to a Feast or Solemnity (e.g. in the parish church of St. Elizabeth of Hungary).

As for the Common, if the book says the Common is for those who worked for the underprivileged, then the book trumps the app.

[/quote]

All good information. However there are memorials with proper antiphons for which one uses the Sunday I psalms for Lauds and from the Common for Vespers.


#9

Thank you!

Here is another question: I noticed that last night, when I prayed Evening prayer I (which is really just Saturday evening, correct?) there's no 'night prayer'. Is there no night prayer for Saturdays, and it's only Evening prayer I, or am I missing ti somewhere/somehow?

I have read the Ordinary instructiions, but I'm going to go through and read them again much more carefully, at ya'll suggestion. Thank you again!


#10

[quote="CredoUnumDeum, post:9, topic:305393"]
Thank you!

Here is another question: I noticed that last night, when I prayed Evening prayer I (which is really just Saturday evening, correct?) there's no 'night prayer'. Is there no night prayer for Saturdays, and it's only Evening prayer I, or am I missing ti somewhere/somehow?

I have read the Ordinary instructiions, but I'm going to go through and read them again much more carefully, at ya'll suggestion. Thank you again!

[/quote]

Saturday's Night Prayer is called "After Evening Prayer I on Sundays and Solemnities", p. 1034 in Christian Prayer. Sunday's is called "After Evening Prayer II on Sundays and Solemnities."


#11

[quote="CredoUnumDeum, post:9, topic:305393"]
Thank you!

Here is another question: I noticed that last night, when I prayed Evening prayer I (which is really just Saturday evening, correct?)...

[/quote]

You are correct. In the liturgies of the Church, Saturday evening is actually the vigil for the following Sunday. Hence, Sunday Evening Prayer 1 is prayed on Saturday evenings, and Sunday Evening Prayer 2 is prayed on Sunday evenings.

...there's no 'night prayer'. Is there no night prayer for Saturdays, and it's only Evening prayer I, or am I missing ti somewhere/somehow?

Evening Prayer and Night Prayer are the only offices effected by the Sunday vigil situation I described. So both these offices have a Sunday Prayer 1 (applicable to Saturdays) and a Sunday Prayer 2 (applicable to Sundays). In Christian Prayer, you'll find Sunday Night Prayer 1 (presented as "After Evening Prayer I on Sundays and Solemnities") on pages 1034 ff., and Sunday Night Prayer 2 (presented as "After Evening Prayer II on Sundays and Solemnities") on page 1037 ff.

I have read the Ordinary instructiions, but I'm going to go through and read them again much more carefully, at ya'll suggestion. Thank you again!

You're very welcome; glad to help :thumbsup:


#12

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