3 Baptisms, but only one saves a man.

3 Baptisms

Many today are content knowing that they were sprinkled when they were children in the church. Yet, in the New Testament, all who were baptized were required to believe in Jesus Christ with all of their hearts (Acts 8:36) and then they were taken and baptized in water (Acts 8:38). Nothing has changed. If you have not been baptized since you have become a believer, you should have it done.

Many are unclear about baptism. For instance, there is not just one baptism spoken of in scripture, but three. There is the baptism that saves us by the baptism of blood. There is the baptism of water and there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The baptism of salvation is not recognized by most churchs as actual baptism. But that does not mean it is not baptism. There is only one baptism that saves a man and it is the baptism of blood. The scripture below explains that the water baptism is the figure of the baptism that saves us. When we get baptized in water, we do nothing that pertains to the putting away of the flesh, but it gives us a good conscience towards God.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In these verses, it talks about being baptized into Christ, not being baptized in the name of Chirst. We are baptized into Christ when we are born again. This is the first baptism. If one does not recieve this baptism, one cannot recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit because the temple must be sanctified by blood and made Holy before God will put his Spirit into it.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

In these verses it shows the relationship of the blood of Jesus to salvation.

Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry in like manner with the blood.

Hebrews 9:22 According to the law, nearly everything is cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

Hebrews 11:28 By faith, he kept the Passover, and the sprinkling of the blood, that the destroyer of the firstborn should not touch them.

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, our Lord Jesus,

1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

The second baptism is the baptism of water. It is found throughout the New Testament and all who recieve it were baptized in the name of Jesus. It is symbolic of the baptism that saves us. 1 Pet. 3:21

No one knows what occurs in the heart of a man who is born again. Only the man and God knows what transpired. And when the man receives water baptism, he is confessing to the world that God saved him from his sins and that he is a new creature in Christ. He has died to his old nature and his new nature is of Christ. And by taking this baptism, he is giving the Father all the glory.

Acts 8:16 for as yet he had fallen on none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of Christ Jesus.

Acts 10:48 He commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay some days.

The third baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations; baptize them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

Acts 1:5 For John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 11:16 I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said,‘John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit.’

IMPORTANT: To do this study, it will take time, but upon completion, will open the scriptures to you as never before. Things that you read and did not understand now begins making sense.

What you have to do is take index cards. On each card will be one scripture. Firstly, on a sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to salvation. Then on another sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to baptisms. Then on another sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to the blood of the lamb. Stick with the New Testament only. That is all you will need. Once you have gathered all scripture, put a verse on a card. By the time you get finished, you will have many. What you are trying to do is distinguish what scriptures pertain to ONE baptism. So basically, you will be trying to sort what pertains to the baptism of salvation which is the first baptism. You will be trying to distinguish what pertains to water baptism which is symbolic of the baptism that saves us and is the second baptism and you will be trying to distinguish the baptism of the Holy Ghost which is the third baptism and is the baptism given on the day of Pentecost.

Now comes the tough part. This is where you need to pray for the Lord to guide you. You have to start sorting what scriptures are related. This will take much time and you will probably go back and forth for some time.

One important note: There is a difference between being baptized into Christ and being baptized in the name of Christ. This is important to remember when doing the study. Examine each word. For there is a difference between into Christ and in the name of Christ.

Since you posted this in non-Catholic religions instead of apologetics, should we assume you aren’t interested in the Catholic “take” on what you have posted?

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins (Nicene Creed)

From the Catechism:

I. One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins

977 Our Lord tied the forgiveness of sins to faith and Baptism: “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved.”(⇒ Mk 16:15-16.) Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification, so that “we too might walk in newness of life.”(⇒ Rom 6:4; Cf. ⇒ 4:25.)

978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism that cleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them… Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "(Roman Catechism I, 11,3.)

979 In this battle against our inclination towards evil, who could be brave and watchful enough to escape every wound of sin? “If the Church has the power to forgive sins, then Baptism cannot be her only means of using the keys of the Kingdom of heaven received from Jesus Christ. the Church must be able to forgive all penitents their offenses, even if they should sin until the last moment of their lives.”(Roman Catechism I, 11,4.)

980 It is through the sacrament of Penance that the baptized can be reconciled with God and with the Church:

[INDENT]Penance has rightly been called by the holy Fathers “a laborious kind of baptism.” This sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation for those who have fallen after Baptism, just as Baptism is necessary for salvation for those who have not yet been reborn.(Council of Trent (1551): DS 1672; Cf. St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 39,17: PG 36,356.)[/INDENT]

In Acts, on a few occasions, an entire household was baptised because the head accepted the faith. Now, can you say with 100% certainty that everyone in the house was above the age of reason and that they ALL accepted Jesus?

He can’t. He is a fundamentalist who has it in his head that Catholics are lost and he is here for oe reason alone—to attempt to shake the faith of Catholics.

Since you posted this in non-Catholic religions instead of apologetics, should we assume you aren’t interested in the Catholic “take” on what you have posted?

I already have discussed this with some catholics. They try to say it is water baptism that saves a man, but that is contrary to the Word of God.

Dear JMJ,

Did you even take the time to read through what was posted before charging to get the CC stand on the subject?

I ask that you read it and decide for yourself asking God for his divine guidance in doing so.

I don’t ask you to believe it, I ask you to seek the truth in it. We are to prove and reprove all doctrine to discern if of God or of man.

He can’t. He is a fundamentalist who has it in his head that Catholics are lost and he is here for oe reason alone—to attempt to shake the faith of Catholics.

Who is more important, God or the CC? You treat the CC as if it is God.

You can take what I posted and never debunk it, for it was given from the spirit of truth known as the Holy Spirit. I have challenged many to do that very thing and they could not.

Do not the elders in the CC search all things to discern if of God or of man. For if of God, then one can find himself fighting against God.

Take the time to read it, prove it, reprove it, asking God to lead you in all things. Be led by God.

heiscominginthe,
Can you say with 100% certainty that all of the people in the households baptised in Acts when the head accepted Jesus were above the age of reason and also accepted Jesus prior to baptism?

If this is what they say, and not just what you heard, then they are incorrect.

We are baptised in the name of Christ, into the body of Christ (His church). Baptism makes us a member of the body of Christ and is for the forgiveness of sins, both original and actual. As a member of the body of Christ we are forgiven of our sins through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The act of baptism isn’t the part that saves, Jesus is who saves. Being baptised into the body of Christ makes us eligible for that salvation.

And even then, catholics recognize that while God works within the sacraments, He is not llimited by the sacraments. We acknowledge that there can be baptism of desire for those who serve an love and believe in God but aren’t able to actually take part in the sacrament before their death.

And more importantly, we don’t see baptism as a one time thing. It’s the beginning of a journey in which we strive to become closer to God and to turn away from sin and live in God’s saving grace. It’s not a means to an end but the beginning of a journey.

All that being said, we’re also inclined to believe Peter when he says “baptism now saves you’”

Correction: Contrary to your understanding of the Word of God, which is based not on a comprehensive and coherent study, but on random quotations of passages out of context.

And you treat the Catholic Church as if it were in direct opposition to God. It is not. The Catholic Church is the very Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself and is guaranteed by God not to fall into error.

Been there and done that. It is the judgment that I made a long time ago that the Catholic Church is the true faith. You act as if your presenting this to us for the first time. Most of us have seen these arguments before. And they are unconvincing.

And given the choice between your fallible personal interpretation of some biblical verses and the infallible Magisterium of the Catholic Church (guaranteed by God to be free of error in teaching faith and morals), sorry but you lose.

Content about what?

This is not the case, heiscoming. While it is normative for adult believers to make a professon of faith prior to baptism, not everyone who was baptized was an adult, or capable of giving consent. For example, in Acts we see where entire households were baptized. It is likely that these included infants, children, and slaves, who espoused the faith of the master of the house (at least externally).

In these passages that refer to whole households being baptized, there is no evidence that anyone was left out.

heis, you are new here, so perhaps you have not read the forum rules. CAF is not a venue for you to spread your anti-Catholic rhetoric, or attempt to pull Catholics away from their Holy and Apostolic faith. It is inappropriate for you to come here and advise Catholics of what they “should” do, according to your modern new doctrine.

Catholics are not at liberty to accept such doctrines, which are a departure from the Apostolic faith we have received.

No, this is not the case. Jesus taught that we are born again of water and spirit. This is what happens in water baptism. At that time, we are joined with Christ in His death, and are sealed in the Holy Spirit.

You have misunderstood the Apostolic Teaching, heis. The Apostle here is saying that the immersion in water in the Name of Jesus is not for the purpose cleaning dirt off the body, as bathing usually does, but to wash the filth from the conscience. It does indeed pertain to putting away the works of the flesh.

Col 2:11-14
11 In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses, 14 erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands.

Baptism replaced circumcision as the entrance rite into the Kingdom. It is called a “circumcision made without hands” because of the working of the Holy Spirit, sealing the individual in baptism.

Well, you are on to part of the truth here. You seem to be lacking what it meant, in the ancient world, to do something “in the name” of someone. We are taken into His identity, we die, and our lives are hidden with Christ in God. It is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us.

You are right, though, the HS cannot dwell in a temple that is unclean. This is how we know that baptism washes away all sins, original, and personal:

1 Cor 6:11
1 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Here is another version (NRSV) that says it a little different.
1 Peter 3:20-22
God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you — not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The only way to have a good or clean conscience before God is by grace, through faith. The text clearly states that we are “saved through water”, just as those in Noah’s day were saved through water.

It is simply amazing that you can read all this, and still come up with an interpretation that is not consistent with what the writers believed and taught. :shrug:

I think part of your problem, heis, is that you are imposing your modern experience into the text. this is not uncommon, and actually, happens whenever we read anything. This is whyit is so important to understand the cultural and historical context in which the scripture was written.

For the first 325 years, it was against the law to be a christian. Those making a “public display” of their faith were summarily arrested and sentenced to death, much of it gruesome. So, baptisms happened in secret, often in places where there was not enough water to immerse a person. This is why the Church authorized pouring and sprinkling.

The Apostles did not separate the HS from baptism, from the time that Jesus joined the two together when He entered the waters, sanctifying them by the Spirit.

This type of “sense” will be of very little value, if it causes the same departure from the Apostolic faith that you have demonstrated. I commend your fervent study of scripture, but doing it in isolation from the Teachings that Jesus gave to the Apostles will result in conclusions that are incorrect.

this is, as you say, quite extensive. It is kinda sad to read, because it demonstrates a fervent and committed individual who is trying to glean the truth from a Source that was never intended to be used this way. You see, Jesus committed His teachings to the Apostles, and they to their successors. These teachings were whole and entire before a word of the NT was ever written. The NT was never meant to be separated from the Sacred Tradition that produced it. when they are separated, people are left with these sorts of gymnastics to try to figure out what it all means. :shrug:

You know, in the early church, catechumens were often in study for three years. This is a long time to study the faith, but at least at the end of that time, they were able to properly understand what the Apostles taught. The method you suggest does not.

Only in your mind, heis. This is not what the Apostles believed and taught.

And, by way of reminder, it is not appropriate for you to come to CAF and attempt to tutor Catholics in methods that will lead them away from the Apostolic Teaching into which they were baptized.

If you wish to draw people into departing from the Apostolic faith, I think it is a bad idea, but it would be more appropriate to start your own website where you can do this type of evangelization. The purpose of CAF is to provide Catholic answers. You are doing the opposite!

This is what we were taught by the Apostles, heis. We are not at liberty to accept your “different gospel”. the Apostles taught that, if we receive something other than what they delivered, we are “anathema”.

The only thing that is contrary here, is your personal interpretation of the Holy Scriptures.

heis, you seem to be making an assumption that there is some discrepancy between what is written in the NT, and what the CC teaches. This is not the case. The NT was produced by the Sacred Tradition,and that is why there is no contradiction between the two.

This effort of yours to attempt to separate Catholics from the Apostolic Faith by following your bible study methods that are separated from the Teachings that were commited to us is not appropriate. If you wish to depart from the Apostolic Teaching yourself, this is your perogaitve. I is not right for you to attempt to draw others here into the same error.

This is a very accurate observation, heis. Jesus left no distinction between Himself, and His Holy Bride, the Church. He is the Head of the Church, and the HS is the soul. These are the divine elements of the Church that make her infallible.

I don’t doubt it. It is not usually possible to change someone’s mind who already has it made up. It seems that you are not here to learn about the Catholic faith.

Indeed, the Magesterium, the teaching authority appointed by Christ, read it, prove it, and reprove it. this is why the doctrines have never changed in 2000 years. :thumbsup:

But its also seen that entire households were baptised, and it is not said that everyone in the house was of an age to make a knowing choice. In addition, your suggestion that ONLY adults were baptized ignores the early tradition of the Church … to baptize entire houses. And discussions among some of the early fathers was whether a family should wait 8 days to baptize an infant (because baptism was recognized as the “new circumcision” or if it was okay to baptize before the 8th day. It wasn’t even suggested that only adults should be baptized in these discussions.

[quote=heiscoming]Many are unclear about baptism. For instance, there is not just one baptism spoken of in scripture, but three. There is the baptism that saves us by the baptism of blood. There is the baptism of water and there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
[/quote]

You seem to be one of the confused. There is only one baptism, the sacrament of baptism instituted by Jesus Christ. The sacrament may be instituted by water, or by blood, or by desire, but it is one sacrament … and the Holy Spirit is always a part of it.

[quote=heiscoming]The baptism of salvation is not recognized by most churchs as actual baptism. But that does not mean it is not baptism. There is only one baptism that saves a man and it is the baptism of blood. The scripture below explains that the water baptism is the figure of the baptism that saves us. When we get baptized in water, we do nothing that pertains to the putting away of the flesh, but it gives us a good conscience towards God.
[/quote]

To the contrary, the baptismal ceremony is all about dying in Christ and being reborn in Him. I’m not sure if you’ve ever attended a Catholic baptism, but it is quite clear from listening to the words that baptism is with water AND the Holy Spirit, the sacrament instituted by Christ.

[quote=heiscoming]1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
[/quote]

[21] “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” The “this” is circumcision… performed on infants at 8 days of age.

[quote=heiscoming]In these verses, it talks about being baptized into Christ, not being baptized in the name of Chirst. We are baptized into Christ when we are born again. This is the first baptism. If one does not recieve this baptism, one cannot recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit because the temple must be sanctified by blood and made Holy before God will put his Spirit into it.
[/quote]

There is ONE BAPTISM. That is the sacrament of baptism instituted by Jesus Christ. “[4] There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
[5] one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.” (Eph. 4:5-6)

I do not understand why you feel the need to interpret the passages you cite as if they are talking about three different “types” of baptism. Can you not see that they all speak in different ways about the one sacrament?

Peace,
Robert
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What is your basis for this claim, especially the “reprove” part?

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