$3 Bn to Palestinians

GLENEAGLES: The world’s industrialised nations backed plans to pump $3bn into the Palestinian economy over the next three years as part of efforts to secure peace in the Middle East.

International special envoy James Wolfensohn, helping coordinate Israel’s planned Gaza withdrawal, sold the plan to leaders of the Group of Eight nations here…"

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Yeah that ought to work. Let’s see if we can fund more of their terroist activities shall we? And my heavens, where are all of their “Arab brothers” who also represent very wealthy nations.

Lisa N

[quote=Lisa N]Yeah that ought to work. Let’s see if we can fund more of their terroist activities shall we? And my heavens, where are all of their “Arab brothers” who also represent very wealthy nations.

Lisa N
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I’d be all for not giving them a penny provided we also stopped subsidizing the state of Israel as well.

As it is, $3 billion is a pittance compared with what we’ve given Israel.

[quote=Lisa N]Yeah that ought to work. Let’s see if we can fund more of their terroist activities shall we? And my heavens, where are all of their “Arab brothers” who also represent very wealthy nations.

Lisa N
[/quote]

Concur, it’s a terrorist state.

[quote=gnjsdad]I’d be all for not giving them a penny provided we also stopped subsidizing the state of Israel as well.

As it is, $3 billion is a pittance compared with what we’ve given Israel.
[/quote]

Given that terrorism as we know it now was substantially a product of Arafat and the Palestinians, I hardly put Israel and Palestine in the same category. Israel has not exported terrorism around the globe, supported homicide bombers who frequent pizza parlors and grocery stores. I cannot even BELIEVE you are saying they should be considered in the same light.

Lisa N

[quote=Lisa N]Given that terrorism as we know it now was substantially a product of Arafat and the Palestinians,
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“Terrorism as we know it” has been practiced by, among others:

The Algerians against the French;
The Kenyans (Mau-Mau) against the British;
The Israelis against the British and Palestinians (before the establishment of the state of Israel);
The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka;
The IRA against the British;
The Basques against the Spanish;

And, yes, the Palestinians against the Israelis.

To say that terrorism is a primarily Palestinian phenomenon is to ignore history and, perhaps, to indulge in a bit of self-righteous bigotry.

[quote=Lisa N] I hardly put Israel and Palestine in the same category. Israel has not exported terrorism around the globe, supported homicide bombers who frequent pizza parlors and grocery stores.
[/quote]

As you correctly point out, the Palestinians have done those sorts of things. But how does that differ from the tactics Israel uses against the Palestinians?. The Israelis employ what they call “targeted assassinations”, which are a blatant violation of not only international law, but of civilized mores as well. Execution without the bother of a trial is just not civilized. Plus, these attacks, carried out using jets or helicopters paid for by good ol’ Uncle Sam, kill a greater number of innocents than the Palestinian terrorists do. It’s getting to the point where a number of Israeli pilots are refusing to obey orders to carry out these missions. They’re called “refuseniks” and one can only pray for an increase in their number.

gngsdad I said specifically the terrorism of homocide bombers was initiated, supported and practiced first by the Palestinians. Yes there has been terrorism for centuries. I would call Atilla the Hun a terrorist for example. No other group but Islamofascist terrorists uses the homocide bombing of civilians as a basic strategy.

As to the Israeli’s I don’t give a rat’s patoot about “international law” when it comes to targeted asassignations of terrorists or their leaders. That they can spot a car with some scumbag terrorist and blow it to smithereens is IMO a good thing. The Israeli military leaders do not blow up pizza parlors and grocery stores. They do not TARGET women and kids.

Huge difference. You cannot possibly put this group of evil doers into the same breath.

As to calling me a bigot that’s a typical response when your argument is lacking in merit. Try again.

Lisa N

[quote=Lisa N]gngsdad I said specifically the terrorism of homocide bombers was initiated, supported and practiced first by the Palestinians. Yes there has been terrorism for centuries. I would call Atilla the Hun a terrorist for example. No other group but Islamofascist terrorists uses the homocide bombing of civilians as a basic strategy.

As to the Israeli’s I don’t give a rat’s patoot about “international law” when it comes to targeted asassignations of terrorists or their leaders. That they can spot a car with some scumbag terrorist and blow it to smithereens is IMO a good thing. The Israeli military leaders do not blow up pizza parlors and grocery stores. They do not TARGET women and kids.

Huge difference. You cannot possibly put this group of evil doers into the same breath.

As to calling me a bigot that’s a typical response when your argument is lacking in merit. Try again.

Lisa N
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AMEN!!!

My goodness.
There *are *Palestinian Christians, remember.:wink: They certainly aren’t “Islamofascists”, as you call them. Think of this money as going towards your Christian brothers and sisters, as well as all other Palestinians who want reform (reform = turning away from terror, toward state-building.) This money is going to bolster the segments of Palestinian society who feel that terror hasn’t helped their cause and who want something better. BTW, I *do *strongly agree that Arab gov’ts have simply used the whole Palestinian issue as a political red herring with their populations. It takes the heat off these leaders for not reforming, and puts their citizens’ despairing anger on Israel and the U.S. This fuels Islamist terror. When it comes down to it, nearly all of the petrified Arab gov’ts would want the status quo to continue. :mad:

[quote=Irene]My goodness.
There *are *Palestinian Christians, remember.:wink: They certainly aren’t “Islamofascists”, as you call them. Think of this money as going towards your Christian brothers and sisters,
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Well for three BILLION DOLLARS we can make each and every one of our Palestinian Christian brothers and sisters millionaires. I doubt if much is going to help their plight.

[quote=Irene]as well as all other Palestinians who want reform (reform = turning away from terror, toward state-building.) This money is going to bolster the segments of Palestinian society who feel that terror hasn’t helped their cause and who want something better.
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Right, and I have a bridge to sell you. Sorry based on your little slogan at the bottom of your posts I think you are a well intentioned, kind hearted person who thinks you can actually negoiate with these people.

[quote=Irene] BTW, I *do *strongly agree that Arab gov’ts have simply used the whole Palestinian issue as a political red herring with their populations. It takes the heat off these leaders for not reforming, and puts their citizens’ despairing anger on Israel and the U.S. This fuels Islamist terror. When it comes down to it, nearly all of the petrified Arab gov’ts would want the status quo to continue. :mad:
[/quote]

On that we agree. Like Hitler or Stalin, it’s easier to find a scapegoat than change your ways. But how is trying to buy them off going to help? Millions were given to Arafat. How much of it filtered down to the Palestinian people? It seems much of it went to his Paris trophy wife. I don’t want them to get a dime until we see real change, denunciation of ALL terrorist acts and prosecution of terrorists. THen we’ll talk.

Lisa N

*I do not think anyone can negotiate with terrorists. *
My point, which you seem to have missed, is that Palestinian society, like any society on the planet, is not a monolith. Yes, there are the terrorists who strap dynamite to themselves and blow up buses, killing scores of people. The militant groups who back them want Israel rubbed off the face of the earth. However, there are also Palestinian people who just want democracy and economic development for their country, a future for their children, like anyone. The money is going to support the latter groups and individuals in the Palestinian areas. It will go assist Mahmoud Abbas, the new leader who is trying to reform the security services and rein in militant groups.

Yes, I do consider myself, as God is my judge, “a well intentioned, kind-hearted person”. My Catholic education taught me to strive to be Christ-like. Wouldn’t Christ look at the suffering on both sides, the guilt on both sides, grieve, and then work toward the fairest solution? This is what I try to do. “Blessed are the peacemakers,” He taught.

[quote=Lisa N]Yeah that ought to work. Let’s see if we can fund more of their terroist activities shall we?
[/quote]

I agree with Irene. Don’t make the mistake of equating the Palestinians as a people and as a society (including our Christian Palestinian brothers and sisters) with Palestinian terrorists. That is painting with far too broad a brush, to say the least. And it happens far too often in most discussions concerning the Middle East. And yes, the vast majority of Palestinians who are NOT terrorists do deserve to be treated with, thought of, and referred to with the same amount of respect as the Israelis. Justice, and dare I say, Christian charity, requires it.

[quote=Lisa N]As to the Israeli’s I don’t give a rat’s patoot about “international law” when it comes to targeted asassignations of terrorists or their leaders.
[/quote]

You’re not alone in your opinion. Terrorists share your disdain for international law.

[quote=Ricardus]I agree with Irene. Don’t make the mistake of equating the Palestinians as a people and as a society (including our Christian Palestinian brothers and sisters) with Palestinian terrorists.
[/quote]

Any more than equating young black men with muggers, or people of hispanic background with illegals, or Jews with swindlers, e.g. is right just because those groups do include some of those malefactors.

[quote=Ricardus]I agree with Irene. Don’t make the mistake of equating the Palestinians as a people and as a society (including our Christian Palestinian brothers and sisters) with Palestinian terrorists. That is painting with far too broad a brush, to say the least. And it happens far too often in most discussions concerning the Middle East. And yes, the vast majority of Palestinians who are NOT terrorists do deserve to be treated with, thought of, and referred to with the same amount of respect as the Israelis. Justice, and dare I say, Christian charity, requires it.
[/quote]

Obviously I have no issue with money going to help people in need. The problem with these programs is that they don’t go to the people who need help but to the corrupt leadership. Palestine has a very high unemployment rate. They have no industry and the young people have no future. But again who’s fault is that? The leaders of that people need to a) get control of the terrorist element and b) make productive use of the funding so that it does not become a bottomless pit.

I do not share your optimism in Mr Abbas. He was unable to control his party during Arafat’s life and will be struggling to keep mulitple groups under control during the subsequent power struggle. I just heard another homoside bomb went off in Israel. Yeah right, they are interested in peace.

Lisa N

[quote=Richardols]Any more than equating young black men with muggers, or people of hispanic background with illegals, or Jews with swindlers, e.g. is right just because those groups do include some of those malefactors.
[/quote]

After 9/11 the Palestinians were cheering in the streets. All of them may not be terrorists, but MOST of them are anti-american. Therefore, we should not give them dollar one.

[quote=Lisa N]gngsdad I said specifically the terrorism of homocide bombers was initiated, supported and practiced first by the Palestinians.
[/quote]

Well, terrorism is terrorism regardless whether its perpetrators kill themselves in the process. I fail to see how this refutes anything I said about other groups which have resorted to such tactics, unless your intent is to once again single out the Palestinians as a terroristic people

[quote=Lisa N]As to the Israeli’s I don’t give a rat’s patoot about “international law” when it comes to targeted asassignations of terrorists or their leaders. That they can spot a car with some scumbag terrorist and blow it to smithereens is IMO a good thing. The Israeli military leaders do not blow up pizza parlors and grocery stores. They do not TARGET women and kids.
[/quote]

I concur with Richardols regarding both your and the terrorists’ attitude toward international law.

I also note that you failed to address in any way the IDFs refusenik problem. Doesn’t it occur to you that there might be some moral problems with Israel’s tactics? Perhaps you’re unaware that the IDF carries out its assassinations in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas on earth. The effect of firing a missile into a building in a crowded city is bound to be devastating and inevitably results in the death and maiming of many innocents, in addition to the “terrorist scumbags”, who, more often than not, manage to escape. The Israelis are well aware of this, yet they still act in this fashion. This happens so often, that it’s meaningless to say that the Israelis “don’t target women and children”.

[quote=Lisa N]As to calling me a bigot that’s a typical response when your argument is lacking in merit. Try again.
[/quote]

No, it’s a typical response to reading remarks such as yours, and, quite frankly, your posts reek with a strong anti-Palestinian bias.

Let’s see if we can fund more of their terrorist activities shall we?

Given that terrorism as we know it now was substantially a product of Arafat and the Palestinians

No other group but Islamofascist terrorists uses the homocide bombing of civilians as a basic strategy

I think you are a well-intentioned, kind hearted person who thinks you can actually negotiate with these people

I just heard another homoside bomb bomb went off in Israel. Yeah, right, they are interested in peace…

These are all your quotes re the Palestinians. Yup, you’re right. No bigotry there.

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