"36,000" denominations


#1

People,

Until we have some better verification that Protestants are divided into 36,000 denominations, I think using that specific number does more harm than good. I’ve been trying to track that down, but I haven’t found anything reliable. I’d be MORE than happy to see any evidence, but until then, using the term “multiple divisions” is more accurate…

I recently had a debate on this and I got singed. So, it’s just a thought…


#2

I agree, the argument can be made that there should be no more than 1 Church and that any number beyond that is just polluting the faith.


#3

How about 27,000? But you’re correct; you can say “thousands” and you get your point across just as well.

[size=1]…But isn’t it also telling that since the ‘Reformation’ just 480 years ago - a reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle - there are now over 27,000 denominations that have derived from that principle? The 1982 World Christian Encyclopedia projected in that year that there would be 22,190 denominations by 1985. 'The present net increase," it noted, is 270 denominations each year (five new ones a week). If we extend that projection to our time, we have well over 27,000 denominations by now…[/size]
geocities.com/thecatholicconvert/staplessolascriptura.html


#4

[quote=montanaman]People,

Until we have some better verification that Protestants are divided into 36,000 denominations, I think using that specific number does more harm than good. I’ve been trying to track that down, but I haven’t found anything reliable. I’d be MORE than happy to see any evidence, but until then, using the term “multiple divisions” is more accurate…

I recently had a debate on this and I got singed. So, it’s just a thought…
[/quote]

I just say thousands these days. The numbers are somewhat vague. But all one has to do is pick up a phone book and know there is alot. You also know that 99% of them have their roots in the reformation.

The actual estimates if you don’t know come from Barrett’s Book of World Christianity I believe is the title. The original edition had it at 23,000 and I think the 2000 edition had it up to 33,000. The author of the book is protestant by the way.


#5

Dave Armstrong has some stuff to say about this:

web.archive.org/web/20001217080800/http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ429.HTM

socrates58.blogspot.com/2004_08_29_socrates58_archive.html#109434258447719839


#6

Well…considering that there will be 3 (3 is just a rough number…sometimes there are more and sometimes less) Baptist Churches, etc. in one town, and all of them have somewhat different beliefs and teachings on certain things…even though they claim to be Baptist in name…they are different, therefore I look at them as 3 different Protestant religions…therefore, by my logic and I could be wrong…there are probably countless numbers of protestant religions out there, because there is no uniformity among them.


#7

Just to put this all in perspective…according to the same work that produced the number of protestant denominations…there are also 223 Catholic denominations (including 197 Latin-rite “denominations”). Its criteria for a “denomination” is not quite accurate.


#8

<< People, Until we have some better verification that Protestants are divided into 36,000 denominations >>

People, don’t be “singed” :smiley: – reply back with a link to this article, a board post I turned into an article for my site. It’s accurate according to Barrett, but OK if you don’t want to say a specific number just say thousands and thousands. :rolleyes: While there is just one Roman Catholic denomination in the U.S. :thumbsup:

How Many Protestant Denominations Are There?

And give me a link to your debate

Phil P


#9

[quote=PhilVaz]<< People, Until we have some better verification that Protestants are divided into 36,000 denominations >>

People, don’t be “singed” :smiley: – reply back with a link to this article, a board post I turned into an article for my site. It’s accurate according to Barrett, but OK if you don’t want to say a specific number just say thousands and thousands. :rolleyes: While there is just one Roman Catholic denomination in the U.S. :thumbsup:

How Many Protestant Denominations Are There?

And give me a link to your debate

Phil P
[/quote]

Dave changed his beliefs since then…

socrates58.blogspot.com/2004_08_29_socrates58_archive.html#109434258447719839


#10

<< there are also 223 Catholic denominations. Its criteria for a “denomination” is not quite accurate >>

Not correct, there is one Roman Catholic denomination in the U.S. according to the source. And yes, his definition of denomination is the issue. But of course the author Barrett is an Anglican, so he’ll probably count “Catholic” denominations as other anglican or episcopalian churches. I’d like to track down Barrett as well, but for now this article will do. Posted in here last month, I trust it.

Phil P


#11

Wanted to add: the 223 denominations are one for each country, more or less. So according to Barrett, the Catholicism in Canada is a different denomination from the Catholicism in the U.S. is a different denomination from the Catholicism in Italy, etc.

Yeah, that’s a problem with his definition of “denomination.” BTW, there are “242 denominations” of the Catholic Church according to Barrett’s 2001 edition. So Svendsen forgot a few. It’s much worse. :smiley:

Phil P


#12

I stay away from stating this myself as even though you can go verify the quantity it usually sidetracks the dialogue. Instead of focusing on the point of hundreds to thousands to thousands upon thousands of denominations you start discussing the accuraccy of the number, which isn’t the point. This is an easy way out of the real issue at hand and just leaves a backdoor out of the discussion and the person usually hops right on through. Now they do not have to discuss the issue that Jesus prayed that the Church would be one, that there should be a unity of faith, one faith.

You are not there to have a discussion nitpicking numbers you should be seeking the truth, which is not about avoiding truth and trying to win but honestly seeking. Allowing someone to turn it into a debate to win, in any way seeking to avoid real issues such as unity and authority then is fruitless.

It will never be able to be verified as a definitive number, as new denominations\interpretations are created every day in different countries around the world. So I believe this is a very wise practice to use in dialogue.

God Bless
Scylla


#13

[quote=PhilVaz]Posted in here last month, I trust it.
[/quote]

My apologies…didn’t notice the date on the article and saw Dave talking about “changing his belief” on the web log. The article in that case is more recent I believe.


#14

<< didn’t notice the date on the article and saw Dave talking about “changing his belief” on the web log >>

No problem, the 36000 number is inaccurate, and so is (technically) the 33000 number since Barrett is counting 242 “Roman Catholic denominations” in separate countries with his definition and total.

But what you can say is, according to Barrett’s encyclopedia, there is one Roman Catholic denomination in the U.S. compared with thousands of Protestant and independent churches in the U.S. That’s accurate. Ultimately the exact figure doesn’t matter, the situation is bad enough. :rolleyes:

But I’d like to know which sloppy Catholic apologist inflated the 33000 number to 36000. The 2001 edition only has 33000. :smiley:

Phil P


#15

[quote=PhilVaz]<< didn’t notice the date on the article and saw Dave talking about “changing his belief” on the web log >>

No problem, the 36000 number is inaccurate, and so is (technically) the 33000 number since Barrett is counting 242 “Roman Catholic denominations” in separate countries with his definition and total.

But what you can say is, according to Barrett’s encyclopedia, there is one Roman Catholic denomination in the U.S. compared with thousands of Protestant and independent churches in the U.S. That’s accurate. Ultimately the exact figure doesn’t matter, the situation is bad enough. :rolleyes:

But I’d like to know which sloppy Catholic apologist inflated the 33000 number to 36000. The 2001 edition only has 33000. :smiley:

Phil P
[/quote]

I’ll have to digest that article later, but if it makes a good case, thanks!

As far as the link goes, it’s in “The 36th Chamber” over at forum.protestwarrior.com. We get into all kinds of things–his latest was a “proof” that St. Patrick wasn’t Catholic. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think with all the relativism in Protestantism, there are as many denominations as there are people.


#16

[quote=montanaman]People,

Until we have some better verification that Protestants are divided into 36,000 denominations, I think using that specific number does more harm than good. I’ve been trying to track that down, but I haven’t found anything reliable. I’d be MORE than happy to see any evidence, but until then, using the term “multiple divisions” is more accurate…

I recently had a debate on this and I got singed. So, it’s just a thought…
[/quote]

Hey the source is obviously David Barrett, A PROTESTANT. How can we trust anything the protestants say? I mean look at all the trouble the Catholic Apologists are getting into when using these numbers as a debate with other PROTESTANTS. The protestants continually chide the Catholics for using their fellow protestant sources.

So in summary even the protestants, once again don’t agree with each other, so let the numbers lie, until a CATHOLIC defines and performs the statistical analysis, without the aid of the ERROR prone protestants.

Chipper


#17

[quote=Chipper]Hey the source is obviously David Barrett, A PROTESTANT. How can we trust anything the protestants say? I mean look at all the trouble the Catholic Apologists are getting into when using these numbers as a debate with other PROTESTANTS. The protestants continually chide the Catholics for using their fellow protestant sources.

So in summary even the protestants, once again don’t agree with each other, so let the numbers lie, until a CATHOLIC defines and performs the statistical analysis, without the aid of the ERROR prone protestants.

Chipper
[/quote]

Wow, there’s some empty-headed analysis! You can’t trust anything the Protestants say? Even respected Catholic publications support Barrett’s analysis.

Additionally, Chipper, is every expert that you rely on in any field from medicine to astrophysics to insurance a CATHOLIC? They had better be, because you can’t trust what a Protestant says. Right?

If you’re going to engage in serious Apologetics, you had better have a bigger repertoire at your disposal than the ad hominem attack. But take that with a grain of salt, I’m Protestant after all.

Peace


#18

[quote=michaelgazin]Just to put this all in perspective…according to the same work that produced the number of protestant denominations…there are also 223 Catholic denominations (including 197 Latin-rite “denominations”). Its criteria for a “denomination” is not quite accurate.
[/quote]

Those are, indeed, “denominations” but they are not Catholic, and they are not Roman Catholic. The definition of Roman Catholic is to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome – and these groups are NOT. These groups are “protestant” in their rejection of Church authority, and no matter how “catholick” they may be in traditions and trappings, they self-exclude themselves from the Catholic umbrella.


#19

I surely wouldn’t want a protestant surgeon operating on me. :rolleyes: (sarcasm)

God works through all people!


#20

[quote=EA_Man]Wow, there’s some empty-headed analysis! You can’t trust anything the Protestants say? Even respected Catholic publications support Barrett’s analysis.

Additionally, Chipper, is every expert that you rely on in any field from medicine to astrophysics to insurance a CATHOLIC? They had better be, because you can’t trust what a Protestant says. Right?

If you’re going to engage in serious Apologetics, you had better have a bigger repertoire at your disposal than the ad hominem attack. But take that with a grain of salt, I’m Protestant after all.

Peace
[/quote]

Typical protestant reaction, taking everything out of context.

Chipper


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