And so when I have answered the questions ---- it is apparent my answer was not acceptable or whatever ---- particularly when you say “your scriptures” Those scriptures include the Bible ---- wait a minute, I do not drink the Kool Aid from the “Former or Never Mormons” folks.
Welcome, it’s great that you’ve started RCIA. I hope you find your journey fulfilling and uplifting.
I have only been a member of this forum for a few days. I don’t know what questions have been previously asked or answered. I respectfully asked you a question about Section 132, not the Bible. If you are unable to answer it, I understand.
Yes, I believe that is true. Outside the Church there is no salvation. From the documents of Vatican II: “To know the Catholic faith and reject it is a mortal sin.”
Yep, but we don’t always know how much knowledge someone has.
No faith, no religion, no belief system that was created in the USA, or any place other than Jerusalem in 33AD is as Christ intended. No Christian assembly based on the bible traces back to Christ in an unbroken line. Oh, there is some truth in each of them. A few of them have quite a bit of truth. But only one, and one alone, has all revealed truth. Only one has the power of binding and loosing. Only one has priests and bishops who forgive sin in the person of Christ. Only one has all seven (theological number of completion) Sacraments instituted by Christ as channels of God’s grace.
Only one. Despite the best intentions and beliefs, the rest all fall short to a greater or lesser degree. I cannot challenge their love of Christ - that much is obvious. What can be challenged is their willingness to deny themselves, take up their crosses daily and (only then), follow Christ for the sake of unity. Notice how that order is often reversed?
WELCOME TO THE FAMILY! I have been Catholic for 55 years and I am as in love with my faith and faith family as ever! I will say, I was drawn to your post because I recently discovered my mother’s biological family are all Mormons from Utah (with a few exceptions) and in the course of trying to understand the culture (I am a psychologist by trade) I am astounded at the development of the Mormon religion. In particular, a person like Joseph Smith would be pathological in my estimation, receiving the diagnosis of either schizophrenic or (worse) narcissistic sociopath. I honestly hoped there would be a reasonable explanation for the widespread conversions in Wales (the Irish drove them out) but the only explanation I can propose is opportunism. JS and BY knew the Irish and Welsh were suffering during the famine and it was a religion separate from the Church of England. (The Irish Catholics did not seem as easily duped.) After reading the CNN report of JS having 30 to 40 wives, I was astounded at the cognitive dissonance that must overwhelm those who still see JS as a prophet.
Shortly after discovering my mother’s bio family, I also found a post by Joshua Valentine (Spartacus) who left Mormonism and became Catholic. This was a comfort because one of my biograndmother’s sister’s married a Valentine. I am hoping I am not the only family member who is Catholic now!
I am equally fascinated. I look forward to discussing it with you!
Cheers and Peace!
Interesting post. My wife’s ancestors from England were shamed by LDS leaders into coming to America to make the trek to Utah. They had good lives with good jobs (they were not desperate), but after they converted to LDS there was a tremendous amount of pressure put on them by local church leaders to abandon their lives in England. The Mormons were trying to get as many converts to move to Utah as possible to “build up the kingdom.” This was often done by lying to converts about what awaited them in the New World. Women were not told about the polygamous futures they would soon experience. One leader even publicly shamed the patriarch of the family in a local newspaper by harshly criticizing him for not being willing to go. The man relented and took his family to America. He ended up dying on the pioneer trek to Utah along with many others who either starved to death or froze in the snow (church leaders shamed them into continuing the trek into the winter pushing handcarts made out of inferior materials even though some wanted to wait for the next Spring) . What was the rush to get to Utah? I can’t think of any good reason. To add insult to injury some LDS leaders said those who died on the trek died because they weren’t faithful enough. All for the glory of the kingdom.
They used D&C 101:4 as a pure lie telling your family that they did not practice polygamy when they actually did.
It’s all a lie.
My mom’s side are Mormons back to NY and MA. Migrated west with “the saints”, from NY and MA to OH, to MO, to UT. Great-grandx6-father was in the group,of wagons that arrived in UT with Brigham Young. This ancestor was a polygamist. Married to five women, three of whom were sisters. The father of these sisters, also a polygamist, died on the trek to UT. I call these ancestors my crazy ancestors. I do believe they had a cog or two missing.
Another branch of the family converted in, and came from England. A young mother with 7 children whose husband died, converted and migrated her family to UT.
Dad’s side of the family, came to UT later, and were not Mormons, but were employed by the railroad.
My family are all Mormons. I’m guessing that if I were to attend a family reunion, I would be the only non-Mormon among hundreds of them.
I know one of my cousins was once married to a Mormon, I don’t know what his religious beliefs are. I don’t think there are Mormons in my family, most of the living people in my family are Lutheran Jewish or Catholic. Well, for as far as I know.
Congratulations for leaving the Mormon way. Please be aware of one common thread between Mormon and Roman Catholic theology. In the same way that Joseph Smith saw the book of Mormon, Roman Catholics see her Church counsels and papal decrees.
As you know, Joseph Smith and all Mormons consider the book of Mormon a “higher revelation” than the bible. For them it is another testament, but what is meant is, it is a better testament. Again, as you know Joseph Smith rejected many foundational truths found in the bible and used the book of Mormon as an extra biblical revelation to further his spiritual convictions.
For Roman Catholics, the bible is just one of three venues to revelation. All papal decrees are brought to the level of authority as the bible. All final judgments from official Church counsels, are also brought to the level of authority of as the bible, even when there is glaring contradiction.
But there are Catholics out there, like myself who consider the New Testament as God’s final word to His Church and is more than sufficient to educate, train and grow in the knowledge of Christ. Please consider this narrow but significant issue as you explore the many flavors of Christianity.
Hey True, both Mormons and Catholics believe in a physical church that has an authoritative hierarchy. Sacred Tradition is taught as coming from the same divine wellspring as Sacred Scripture, in Catholicism. I think it is debatable, and has been debated often on these forum, whether every papal text and every church council is infallible. That being said, mainline Protestants generally accept the first seven councils as authoritative.
I looked at a lot of different religions, not just Christian. Speaking for myself, the overriding thing with Protestant denominations is that they were all started by some guy, same as Mormonism. I see Mormonism as the ultimate result of Protestantism. They both have a view that Jesus left His church and so it is we must go figure out where He went. Add to that, that sola scripture is not really sola scripture, and it wasn’t hard for me to decide where to go. I’m Roman Catholic.
But, another but , Protestantism and Roman Catholicism, from a former Mormon POV, have few doctrinal differences. Really, some of the main points of contention as argued on these forum are trivial, when compared to how far off the rails Mormonism takes people. I’m happy when I see any former Mormon move to any Christian religion, where they can receive a valid baptism, as so many former Mormons go atheist…as I did for most of my life.
Two of my four children left the Mormon church and are now atheist. One is undecided. One still is with the church but mostly for cultural reasons, I believe. I became seriously skeptical about God when I first left the church. I totally get why so many Ex-mos do.
I have since married a most wonderful Catholic woman who has three beautiful Catholic daughters. This has been a real blessing to me
I’m pretty sure he would have been murdered even if he had not shot his own gun. Remember, a gun was fired into the room he was being held in. So there was some intent on someone’s part to kill him as soon as possible. That he had a gun and fought back doesn’t make it less of a murder. That he was outnumbered, made it a successful murder. However the cliche “he went like a lamb to the slaughter” is obviously misrepresentation.
(apologies for posting inconsistency/mistakes - I’m still getting used to this new format - which I find less pleasing)
(1) “Regarding Joseph Smith and the multiple wives — I understand the purpose the Lord had for the men who made the decision regarding multiple wives.”
Would you care to describe the purpose?
(2) apostles vs. bishops. What’s in a name? Is it really the name that matters, or is it the “authority” (in Mormon terms) or function?
Those are good questions that you probably won’t get an answer for. I’ll let them address the first one (if they will–don’t hold your breath).
The second question:
Ephesians 4:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
No, it’s not the name that matters. Obviously, because in the Mormon church, nobody is ordained to the office of evangelist or pastor that I know of. Maybe they have changed their policy in the last few years, though.