5th Marian Dogma


#1

Should the teaching of Mary as Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate be defined as Dogma?


#2

[quote=starrs0]Should the teaching of Mary as Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate be defined as Dogma?
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I would be interested in hearing why this needs to be done.


#3

For me defining the Dogma is the Theological cement on Mary’s role in the Church it will be a profound statement to the world on how she helped and continues to help bring Salvation to the people of the world. On another level I feel that this could help hasten the Triumph of her Immaculate Heart and may even be the catalyst that usher’s it in I see the Age of Peace prophesied by mystics and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart to be one and the same. I give my full support to the efforts of those who want the Holy Father to make this Dogma and encourage those who agree with me to sign the petition at

voxpopuli.org/ I feel Our Lady will look favorably on those who help bring this proclamation about and will be blessed by her.


#4

[quote=starrs0]For me defining the Dogma is the Theological cement on Mary’s role in the Church it will be a profound statement to the world on how she helped and continues to help bring Salvation to the people of the world. On another level I feel that this could help hasten the Triumph of her Immaculate Heart and may even be the catalyst that usher’s it in I see the Age of Peace prophesied by mystics and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart to be one and the same. I give my full support to the efforts of those who want the Holy Father to make this Dogma and encourage those who agree with me to sign the petition at

voxpopuli.org/ I feel Our Lady will look favorably on those who help bring this proclamation about and will be blessed by her.

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I, as a Byzantine Catholic, do not really see a need for this to happen.

Age of Peace? Sounds a bit like millenarianism.

This will just cause a further rift between the Eastern and Western Churches.

I think the next great move within the Church should be reunification with the Orthodox, then we can have a council where, if necessary, this can be done.

Anyways, I believe that the Holy Father has stated that he will not do this.

I do not think petitions such as this are a good thing as the Church is not a demoracy. I bet there is a petition out there to have the Holy Father start ordaining priestesses.


#5

This kind of thinking bothers me tremendously, it is not Our Lady’s place or prerogative to express extra favor for those who honor her with titles.

Our Lady is supposed by us to be sinless, this would be a crass example of pride, the first sin.

She would not show favoritism, her first inclination would be to do the Will of God and none other. She would deflect the praises and honors and humbly point directly toward her son.

Holy Mary mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.

+T+
Michael, that sinner


#6

I do not think this is needed nor desireable.


#7

I say why not is it so we don’t creep out the Protestants or offend some Orthodox? How is defining this truth any different than the defining of the Dogma’s of the Immaculate Conception or
The Assumption what need/reasons arose for them to be defined?


#8

I would like it. And Mary in her humility called herself blessed. Lets not forget that.
But such dogmas are usualy introduced at specific times for the benefit of the whole Church. So we don’t get to choose the timing. It’s the Holy Spirit who chooses what and when.


#9

[quote=John Russell Jr]I would like it. And Mary in her humility called herself blessed. Lets not forget that.
But such dogmas are usualy introduced at specific times for the benefit of the whole Church. So we don’t get to choose the timing. It’s the Holy Spirit who chooses what and when.
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I agree with you. I would like it too.


#10

[quote=starrs0]Should the teaching of Mary as Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate be defined as Dogma?
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Coredemptrix? No, Mary is not divine, nor did she die for our sins.

Mediatrix? We have but one mediator & that is Jesus Christ.

Advocate? This seems ok, but you know that there are many that will misinterpret this & take things too far to the left.

Remember that Our Lady’s last recorded words in scripture are “Do what ever He tells you.” She always points to her Son for us, & does not need us to elevate her, God has done so already.


#11

[quote=Dj Roy Albert]Coredemptrix? No, Mary is not divine, nor did she die for our sins.

Mediatrix? We have but one mediator & that is Jesus Christ.

Advocate? This seems ok, but you know that there are many that will misinterpret this & take things too far to the left.

Remember that Our Lady’s last recorded words in scripture are “Do what ever He tells you.” She always points to her Son for us, & does not need us to elevate her, God has done so already.
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Calling Mary Coredemptrix does not include making her divine or that she died for our sins.

Yes, Christ is our sole mediator–of Justice. Mary is a mediator of grace. Perfectly sound theology.

Yes, God has already elevated her and does not need us to acomplish what God has already done, but that does not mean we cannot formally acknowledge true aspects of that elevation. The Church is not throwing darts at a board and making this stuff up out of thin air.

Scott


#12

The Lady Of All Nations

http://www.ewtn.com/art/mary/OL_nations.jpg

Lord Jesus Christ,
Son of the Father,
send now Your Spirit over the earth,
Let the Holy Spirit live
in the hearts of all nations,
that they may be preserved
from degeneration, disaster and war.
May the Lady of All nations,
who once was Mary,
be our Advocate.
Amen

From 1945 to 1959 a woman in Amsterdam, Ida Peerderman, received messages in which Mary states that she wants to be addressed " in these our times" as "The Lady Of All Nations."
On May 31, 1996, public veneration of the Mother of God under this title was officially authorized by the two bishops of Haarlem (NL). Our Lady also requested the official recognition of her vocation as “Coredemptix, Mediatrix and Advocate,” promising that " The Lady of All Nations will then grant peace, true peace, to the world."
Mary appeared standing before her Son’s Cross, to which she is so inseparably and painfully united and she gave the above prayer to the visionary. From Mary’s open hands the three rays of “grace, redemption and peace” stream down upon all nations. These gifts emerge from the Cross of Christ, and she promises to grant them to everyone who says this prayer daily before a crucifix or this image.
the meaning of “who once was Mary.” is explained by the Lady of All nations herself: “…many people have known Mary as Mary. Now however, in this new era, which is about to begin, I wish to be the Lady of All Nations. Everyone understands this.” July 2, 1951


#13

Starrs0,

Thank so much for this beautiful prayer and pic! I hadn’t heard of this before…?


#14

The apparition in Amsterdam seem to be in question. The previous bishop condemed it but the current one seems to favor it.

There is one statement that is alleged to be from Mary that troubles me. She is said to have said, “Who once was Mary,” to describe Herself. Very odd in the least.

Also there is the fact that even if this is approved, it is a private message and therefore not part of the deposit of faith. So if it is not part of the deposit of faith it can not be used as a proof of a dogma.

Just as Lourdes was not used in the defining of the Immaculate Conception even though Our Lady used that title.


#15

If you want to know more about Our Lady of All Nations Annunciata go to:

www.de-vrouwe.net/english

www.ladyofallnations.org


#16

[quote=starrs0]If you want to know more about Our Lady of All Nations Annunciata go to:

www.de-vrouwe.net/english

www.ladyofallnations.org

[/quote]

Also go to {URL=http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/unapprov/amsterda/amsterda.html]Alleged apparitions at Amsterdam

And again, private messages are not used in defining dogma as dogma is part of the deposit of faith and must be believed while private messages are not part of the deposit of faith and do not require assent/belief.


#17

The way I read the Catechism, I think this has allways been taught. The quotes below are just a portion that I think declare this to be true.

969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”


970 “Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power[font=Arial]. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it. No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”

973 By pronouncing her “fiat” at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body."

488-511 in The Catechism as well as 964-973 cover this topic pretty well.

In the mean time I stand by the Church and what ever She decides.
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#18

[quote=solanus]The way I read the Catechism, I think this has allways been taught. The quotes below are just a portion that I think declare this to be true.
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[/quote]

If its always been taught then why a new Dogma?


#19

If its always been taught then why a new Dogma?

Why are Dogmas defined?

If I am to suppose that all who responded in this post are Catholic , then I believe that there are some who doubt or have been taught otherwise.

Coredemptrix? No, Mary is not divine, nor did she die for our sins.

Mediatrix? We have but one mediator & that is Jesus Christ.

Advocate? This seems ok, but you know that there are many that will misinterpret this & take things too far to the left.

Again , I am not for or against. If it is needed the Holy Spirit will call upon the Church to proclaim. I just have a hard time with Catholics who make statements like the above one . These Catholics (if he is one) have a problem with Mediatrix? or Advocate? Where and why was this taught?


#20

I voted maybe but I lean towards no.

There is so much misunderstanding of these terms that it would give more ammunition to the Fundamentalists. That I really don’t care about one iota.

BUT even here on this forum as we can see a huge misunderstanding of what these terms mean. NONE of them say that Mary is Divine, and NONE of them surplant Jesus as Mediator between us and God.

They do say that Mary shared in the Salvation of souls, by one, her having given birth to Our Lord, and two, she shared in the suffering of Jesus because she was there. She indeed felt as if a sword had been plunged into her heart.

And lastly she is our Mediator to JESUS, she is the dispenser of all grace. So from God through Jesus through Mary, all graces flow

Christ’s Peace.

WC


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