666 or 616


#1

:banghead: I have a friend that believes in God. Believes in the OT but not the NT. The other day he was talking about the numerology in the bible, especially 616 vs 666. He says that all the bibles should be recalled and rewritten because of the 666 “error”. I tried to explain that the mark of the beast was not necessarily a person, but a philosophy. He also says that the mark of beast is older than the bible if that’s possible. How do I explain this further? Am I off base?


#2

I don’t know what he might mean by saying that the mark of the beast is older than the Bible. Did he explain that?

I read in a commentary on the Book of Revelations that 666 is in most manuscripts, but 616 does also appear in some fewer ones, but they are very old and important. Bottom line is, John was almost certainly refering to someone alive at the time he was writing. It was probably the Emperor Nero, but we can never be sure.


#3

I have heard a couple of theories on this. One was that there were 2 different emperors concerned. In other words, one # (666) would be for Nero, the #616 would be for the other emperor that was referred to.
The other theory is that because 7 is used as a “perfect” #…Refers to God, angels, etc, that 666 just meant, the person fell short in every way of being a godly person.(That wouldn’t explain the 616, though).
But the fact that more than one emperor as involved in the persecution of Christians would make more sense, at least, IMHO.


#4

I have heard a couple of theories on this. One was that there were 2 different emperors concerned. In other words, one # (666) would be for Nero, the #616 would be for the other emperor that was referred to.

Actually, Nero could have been referred to by both 666 and 616. Depending on which language/title he was referred to in, it would add up to either 666 or 616.
Sorry I don’t have more specifics, but I’m up much later than usual for me, and my brain is already half asleep. Hopefully someone else will be able to provide better documentation of this.


#5

[quote=Grace and Glory]Actually, Nero could have been referred to by both 666 and 616. Depending on which language/title he was referred to in, it would add up to either 666 or 616.
Sorry I don’t have more specifics, but I’m up much later than usual for me, and my brain is already half asleep. Hopefully someone else will be able to provide better documentation of this.
[/quote]

From the This Rock article “The Beast in Revelation” (note it is spelled Revelation not Revelations):

…We are told that the number of the beast is 666 and that this is the number of a man’s name (13:18). Not coincidentally, the persecuting, pagan Roman Empire was headed in the A.D. 60s by Caesar Nero, whose name happened to add up to 666 in the Hebrew system of letters and numbers. (In Hebrew, “Caesar Nero” = “NRWN QSR” = N 50 + R 200 + W 6 + N 50 + Q 100 + S 60 + R 200 = 666; a variant spelling of the name, NRW QSR, adds up to 616, which some manuscripts have in place of 666).

To see the entire article go to the Catholic Answers homepage and type in keyword “616.”


#6

I do not believe that the Ceasar Nero could be the beast of Revelation since Revelation was written in Greek and “NRWN QSR” = 666 is in Hebrew.

%between%
“Furthermore, even if some parts of the New Testament were written in Hebrew (such as the gospel of Matthew), as some suggest, isn’t it amazing that God did not preserve those manuscripts – instead He chose to preserve His New Testament Scriptures in the GREEK LANGUAGE, with the Greek forms of His name and titles!” (FROM)
ntgreek.org/answers/nt_written_in_greek.htm#Chapter_Three

7 means “Holy” as a pronoun or a noun, while 6 means man and symbolizing the absence of the Holy Spirit. Also, 8 is woman and also symbolizes absence of the Holy Spirit. A Holy One is a man or woman who does not lack the Spirit. Note how Christ said whoever does what He commands is his mother and sister and brother thereby stating our final state- like the angels. (as Zooey suggested =7)


#7

A LIGHT ON FUNDAMENTALISM - Vol. 1. [10]
The Beast of the Apocalypse: Playing the Numbers Game

by Paul Stenhouse, M.S.C., Ph.D


#8

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