75% of mass shooters stopped are stopped by civilians

I thought this was interesting. Of the “active shooters” who are stopped either DURING or BEFORE they commit murder, only 25% are stopped by police officers. Another 25% are stopped by ARMED CIVILIANS. And still another 50% are stopped by UN-ARMED CIVILIANS.

The statistics do not include the active shooters who commit murder and then suicide BEFORE they are confronted. The statistics only include those shooters who ultimately have been STOPPED (this includes shooters committing suicide when confronted by armed civilians or police) or KILLED during a confrontation with either police or civilians. It also includes active shooters who have been stopped but have not actually committed mass murder.

This information was gathered by former SWAT team officer, and current police training school owner, Ron Borsch of the S.E.A.L. Academy. It is now considered valid by the L.E.O. trainers and many departments have changed their tactics based on Mr Borsch’s work so that the first officers on the scene no longer wait for back up but now go into the scene to actively search for the shooter.

Charlotte Gun Rights Examiner: Armed self-defense & ‘The Stopwatch of Death’

Active Killer - Active Shooter Training

Tactical Water Diamond

Force Science News #98: Solo Officers vs. Active Killers: Officers Speak Out at Force Science News

Force Science News #97: Ohio Trainer Makes the Case for Single-Officer Entry Against Active Killers at Force Science News

very interesting, but not suprising. it just kinda proves the old adage:

when seconds count the police are minutes away

That is clearly true. It is also** not an insult levied at the police**, but rather just a factual statement.

The problem with waiting for SWAT is that most active shooter events are over in less than 8 minutes, many in just 90 seconds. SWAT response time is 10 to 30 minutes. Holding out for specially trained reinforcements is simply waiting for the event to be over and then walking in after the murders are complete and the shooter has already committed suicide.

According to the training instructor, if the police have any chance at stopping an active shooter bent on mass murder then the the first responders must go into the scene and engage. The other reality is that civilians are already ON THE SCENE and that is very probably why 75% of the time that an active shooter is stopped a civilian is the one doing the stopping. 25% of the total with a gun, 50% of the total without a gun (but it sounds like that typically takes multiple civilians to act in concert).

Some of the anti gun people mean well, but they simply don’t see the big picture.

I hike all the time. If I see a wild animal with rabies, or a bear looking to attack someone, I don’t want to have to rely on the fish and game people to defend myself.

Simply put, I think if everyone carried a gun, there would be NO MORE mass shooting!!!

In Texas right now the congress is looking to allow CHL holders to carry on college campuses.

One of our dumb laws is cannot carry into schools. Like I can go to Mass or anywhere on Church property and carry but where our Bible study meets; in our school I can’t carry!

This law makes no sense!

The wacko’s know that schools and college campuses are gun free zones so that’s where they’re going to prey on.

Where are all the anti-gun posters?:shrug: The silence is deafening.

Yup, the only sound I hear are crickets chirping :rolleyes:

I live in New York and wanted to buy a bayonet lug for accessories for my AR-15. I quickly found out it’s illegal to have a bayonet lug. I wonder why this law was even passed. Has anyone heard of any drive by bayonetting in New York?

So that’s what happened to our drive by bayonet lug gangs I heard that our Governor deported them to New York.:rolleyes:

You won’t here this on CNN!

Research by award-winning criminologist Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz reveals Americans use guns for self-defense as often as 2.5 million times a year–that`s three to five times more often than they are misused by criminals.

Gun Ownership at All-Time High, Violent Crime Near 30-Year Low

Over the last two decades, many “gun control” laws have been eliminated or made less restrictive at the federal, state, and local levels. Numbers of privately-owned guns and Right-to-Carry states have risen to all-time highs. Every step of the way, “gun control” groups predicted violent crime would increase. Instead, violent crime decreased dramatically.

Less “Gun Control”: The Brady Act’s handgun waiting period expired in 1998, in favor of the NRA-supported National Instant Check System. Some states thereafter eliminated waiting periods or purchase permit requirements. The federal “assault weapon” ban expired in 2004. Since 1987, 30 states have eliminated prohibitory or restrictive carry laws, in favor of Right-to-Carry (RTC) laws; there are now 40 RTC states. All states have hunter protection laws, 46 have range protection laws, 47 prohibit local jurisdictions from imposing gun laws more restrictive than state law, 44 protect the right to arms in their constitutions, and Congress and 33 states have prohibited frivolous lawsuits against the firearm industry.1 Studies by or for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Institute of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that “gun control” reduces crime.2

More Guns: The number of new guns rises by about 4.5 million every year.3 There are 250+ million privately-owned firearms in the United States.4

Less Violent Crime: Since 1991, the nation’s total violent crime rate is down 38 percent. (Murder is down 43 percent; rape, 29 percent; robbery, 46 percent; and aggravated assault, 35 percent.) Violent crime dropped every year from 1991-2004, to a 30-year low; increased slightly in 2005 and 2006; and decreased to nearly the 2004 level in 2007. Every year since 2002, the violent crime rate has been lower than anytime since 1974. Every year since 1999, the murder rate has been lower than anytime since 1966. States with RTC laws, compared to the rest of the country, have lower violent crime rates on average: total violent crime by 24 percent, murder, 28 percent; robbery, 50 percent; and aggravated assault, 11 percent.5


  1. www.nraila.org/Issues/.
  2. www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=406797; Prevention 2003, ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/9/2/151; , www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/jlc-new/Research/Koper_aw_final.pdf; Wm. J. Krouse, , www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm; National Research Council, “Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review,” National Academies Press, 2005 , books.nap.edu/books/0309091241/html/index.html.
  3. BATFE, Annual Firearm Manufacturers and Export Reports, www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/index.htm.
  4. BATFE estimated 215 million guns in 1999 (Crime Gun Trace Reports, 1999, National Report, Nov. 2000, p. ix , www.atf.gov/firearms/ycgii/1999/index.htm). The ," www.ojp.usdoj.gov./bjs/pub/html/bcft/2007/table/bcft07st01.htm).
  5. FBI fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_04.html Bureau of Justice Statistics, bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/. RTC comparison based on data in the FBI table.

I’m surprised! I’m not trying to bump this thing but it seems when you put in real facts from the government no one wants to debate it.:confused:

does that actually suprise you?

The most ridiculous story I read regarding political correctness and the governments warped approach to gun ownership was about a woman in Florida who had an aligator come INSIDE her house and attack her golden Lab. She shot it with a pistol. She was given a citation for hunting without a license.

Yeah kind of because usually they’ll make up some good lies.

There was one a few years back a guy moved to New York City had a handgun. He filed all the documents you’re supposed to and was waiting for approval. A guy broke into his home into his childs bedroom his boy less than five years old was in the bedroom well he shot scumbag didn’t kill him.

The police come there and arrest the home owner because he didn’t have any documents allowing him to have a handgun in his home.

Sometimes you just have to love the insanity.



Well I would think that some of our infamous anti-gunners would jump all over this thread. However, I don’t think they are intentional liars, I think they simply parroted the ‘media’ lies. But at least for some of our more infamous anti-gunners here they have been given the truth about gun ownership to refute the media lies. The facts have been documented enough that if they put forth any of the famous media lies then they will be spreading lies intentionally.

*]The Kellerman study has been debunked several times, with footnotes. That is an often repeated media lie that claims a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a resident of the home. Its totally untrue. It is still listed as a media resource on many anti-gun websites despite the fact that the study author admitted it is false and revised his study several times, even admitting he’d want his wife to use a handgun if attacked.
*]The various crime studies claiming that guns are used to commit crimes more often than to prevent them have been debunked several times.
*]The US government cannot even produce 1 single study that shows that gun control reduces crime and its own studies have shown, in fact, that gun control does not reduce crime.

In all the years I have gone to mass, I have never once seen a shooter there.

Me either and I hope I never do.

So stanmax, do you have any problem with mandating registration of firearms, just like you register your car? It’s a simple matter, and would help keep handguns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have them.

I’m from Norway. Plenty of people have firearms, but they are all registered. Norway had 29 murders in 2008, or .006 per thousand inhabitants. Pretty good, don’t you agree?

So what do you think, time to bring more guns to Church? Just in case?

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