A bit of a reprimand for the board


#1

Not sure I am the person to do this but I need to take you to task on a few comments I have seen on this board regarding discussions with Protestants, scriptural discussions, and the fruit that they bare. I have seen it said many times on this board since I started “I haven’t had much success discussing scripture” or “your friend doesn’t sound to open to Catholicism” or things of that nature. Let us refrain from judgements, just speak the truth and let the spirit do his work. Paul says “I planted, Apollos watered, but the Lord made it grow”. Some of our seed will fall on rocky or thorny ground and bear no fruit. But some will bear fruit thirty, sixty, or one hundred fold. We cannot judge.

My father had this field that had never had clover on it when he owned it. One year the whole thing came up in clover. The neighbors said it had been 20 years since there had been clover planted there and it just took that long for the conditions to be right and the seed to germinate.

Further of course they won’t seem “open” at first. They have been incredibly biased against it. But I have seen many successes where someone who seemed biased some months or years later has started to see the light. It’s a long road and God is patient. When we first approach those who have been blinded by error it may take some time for them to see the trees in a blur. But eventually by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit we can help them see the trees clearly. We have to undo the education that they have recieved. This is very difficult. JP II said it is better for someone not to be taught anything about Christianity than to be taught error from the aspect of conversion.

We feel like we need to reel these people in. It is a thing of pride to feel we need to convert these people and if they don’t submit immideately to our outstanding exegesis (which may well be quite obvious from our perspective, then they have not learned from us and are lost. Your just planting seeds and the effects may not be seen until long after you have had contact with this person. One guy I debated quite a bit on a board called baptistboard. He was one of those that was fair but unmoved it seemed. Well I ran in to him about a year ago on another board (I got booted off baptistboard for preaching catholicism.). He was then in RCIS and thanked me for sticking to my guns regarding Catholicis. Another guy was on a Catholic board debating with this friend of mine. I took some of it offline and did it through emails. He seemed to stick to his anti-catholic rhethoric. Eventually we stopped emailing. Well 6 months later (a couple of weeks ago) he contacted me and asked if he could ask me questions. Said he was searching for more and he was reading Keatings Catholicism and Fundamentalism.I have a pole on this board and on another about whether people have converted based on message boards. So far it is 15:1 in favor of protestants converting to Catholicism being influenced significantly by message boards. Hang in there and hang with the truth. You are having an effect. Detachment is key to where God is their savior and not us and we are just instruments. We trust that if we planted a seed that it will eventualy grow and leave the rest to him. First and foremost PRAY!

Just wanted to air it out. By the way consider this a reflection on past mistakes rather than a reprimand based on superiority.

God bless


#2

Here is some more advice from our first Pope.
1 Peter 3:15
Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.

Scylla


#3

I have had to apologize several times on these forums for losing my cool and being condescending to those who don’t believe as we do. I have gone to confession over the matter, and my penance was “praying for a gentle and humble heart”. I still pray that prayer, and I would recommend it to anyone who, like me, suffers from the sin of pride. May we, in our love for the truth, never forget the truth about love.

RyanL


#4

We must always remember that we are of the truth by the grace of God. It cannot be arrived at simply by reading a book and deducing logically what the truth is. “flesh and blood hath not revealed this to you but my father in heaven”. We did not come to it of our own but by the grace of God. “I will have mercy upon whom I have mercy”. It is a responsibility rather than a right.

Blessings


#5

Thessalonian, I agree with everything you said. After having several heated discussion with someone I finally asked God for help because I knew what I was doing didn’t feel right. I knew God was probably looking down at me and shaking his head. He must have heard my plea because everything changed and all dicussions were so peaceful. The best thing is that person is now attending church again!!! Thank you Jesus!!!
Remember, ask and you shall recieve.


#6

Dear Thessalonian,

I agree with you. It is pride, sometimes masquerading as obligation, that seems to drive forceful attempts at coercing other people’s minds to “steer” it where we think it should be. There may be some fear involved too, as well as other problems.

Thank you for a good thread.

Alan


#7

[quote=thessalonian]Not sure I am the person to do this but I need to take you to task on a few comments I have seen on this board regarding discussions with Protestants, scriptural discussions, and the fruit that they bare. I have seen it said many times on this board since I started “I haven’t had much success discussing scripture” or “your friend doesn’t sound to open to Catholicism” or things of that nature. Let us refrain from judgements, just speak the truth and let the spirit do his work. Paul says “I planted, Apollos watered, but the Lord made it grow”. Some of our seed will fall on rocky or thorny ground and bear no fruit. But some will bear fruit thirty, sixty, or one hundred fold. We cannot judge.

My father had this field that had never had clover on it when he owned it. One year the whole thing came up in clover. The neighbors said it had been 20 years since there had been clover planted there and it just took that long for the conditions to be right and the seed to germinate.

Further of course they won’t seem “open” at first. They have been incredibly biased against it. But I have seen many successes where someone who seemed biased some months or years later has started to see the light. It’s a long road and God is patient. When we first approach those who have been blinded by error it may take some time for them to see the trees in a blur. But eventually by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit we can help them see the trees clearly. We have to undo the education that they have recieved. This is very difficult. JP II said it is better for someone not to be taught anything about Christianity than to be taught error from the aspect of conversion.

We feel like we need to reel these people in. It is a thing of pride to feel we need to convert these people and if they don’t submit immideately to our outstanding exegesis (which may well be quite obvious from our perspective, then they have not learned from us and are lost. Your just planting seeds and the effects may not be seen until long after you have had contact with this person. One guy I debated quite a bit on a board called baptistboard. He was one of those that was fair but unmoved it seemed. Well I ran in to him about a year ago on another board (I got booted off baptistboard for preaching catholicism.). He was then in RCIS and thanked me for sticking to my guns regarding Catholicis. Another guy was on a Catholic board debating with this friend of mine. I took some of it offline and did it through emails. He seemed to stick to his anti-catholic rhethoric. Eventually we stopped emailing. Well 6 months later (a couple of weeks ago) he contacted me and asked if he could ask me questions. Said he was searching for more and he was reading Keatings Catholicism and Fundamentalism.I have a pole on this board and on another about whether people have converted based on message boards. So far it is 15:1 in favor of protestants converting to Catholicism being influenced significantly by message boards. Hang in there and hang with the truth. You are having an effect. Detachment is key to where God is their savior and not us and we are just instruments. We trust that if we planted a seed that it will eventualy grow and leave the rest to him. First and foremost PRAY!

Just wanted to air it out. By the way consider this a reflection on past mistakes rather than a reprimand based on superiority.

God bless
[/quote]

Thanks for the reproach - I will take it to heart and if you see that I haven’t, I invite you to send me an email with a personal reprimand. Thanks for the kind reminder.

As my sig said previously, “Jesus never taught with a stick. He taught with love and compassion ever mindful of the dignity of others”. Sometimes I have forgotten my own message when getting carried away here on this board.

I too have seen how long it can take for those seeds to germinate and it’s not in days or months - it is in years.

:amen:


#8

[quote=thessalonian]By the way consider this a reflection on past mistakes rather than a reprimand based on superiority.
[/quote]

Well, if it’s not a “reprimand,” then don’t call it one in the subject line.


#9

[quote=Pentecost2005]Well, if it’s not a “reprimand,” then don’t call it one in the subject line.
[/quote]

I think we should look at the message moreso, and I support that message regardless of what prompted it.

Often times we learn something ourselves and pass it along. We should always strive to look inward, even if we don’t like how it is being communicated or who is sending the message. At the same time, we need to be mindful of how WE communicate and I think that was the intent of the message.

I took it more as an admonition and brothers and sisters are certainly capable of delivering those now and then, as well as any good priest in a pulpit. What’s most important is how we receive those messages when the message is good, and this one is.


#10

[quote=Pentecost2005]Well, if it’s not a “reprimand,” then don’t call it one in the subject line.
[/quote]

Re-read with this intention: it’s not a reprimand based on superiority, but rather a reprimand based on personal reflection of past mistakes. That sound better?


#11

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