a-call-for-ecuminical-dialogue-between-catholics-and-protestants


#1

examiner.com/article/a-call-for-ecuminical-dialogue-between-catholics-and-protestants

Okay, let's try this. Vatican II encourages discussion and dialogue with your separated brethrens. The Pope made a remarkable ecumenical statement of:

Pope Benedict said that Martin Luther’s doctrine of justification by faith alone is correct if ‘faith is not opposed to charity.’ The Pope said this during a general audience in a speech on St Paul’s teaching on justification. (Vatican, November 2008 - link)

Let's try again to have a mutual respectful discussion about our similarities and differences for the purpose of positive movement toward Christian unity. I don't think Catholic or Protestant apologetics impresses anyone on this site; therefore, let’s all try to refrain from posting apologetics which shuts down open and honest discussions. Instead, let’s have an honest respect discussion between Christian siblings who have the same Heavenly Father.


#2

What similarities or differences exactly would you like to discuss?


#3

Let’s just keep this an open thread to discuss anything that you would like. First of all, we are all siblings in Christ who have the same Heavenly Father. Would you agree with that statement?


#4

[quote="Christian_Unity, post:3, topic:307023"]
Let's just keep this an open thread to discuss anything that you would like. First of all, we are all siblings in Christ who have the same Heavenly Father. Would you agree with that statement?

[/quote]

yes, I do


#5

[quote="Christian_Unity, post:1, topic:307023"]
examiner.com/article/a-call-for-ecuminical-dialogue-between-catholics-and-protestants

Okay, let's try this. Vatican II encourages discussion and dialogue with your separated brethrens. The Pope made a remarkable ecumenical statement of:

Pope Benedict said that Martin Luther’s doctrine of justification by faith alone is correct if ‘faith is not opposed to charity.’ The Pope said this during a general audience in a speech on St Paul’s teaching on justification. (Vatican, November 2008 - link)

Let's try again to have a mutual respectful discussion about our similarities and differences for the purpose of positive movement toward Christian unity. I don't think Catholic or Protestant apologetics impresses anyone on this site; therefore, let’s all try to refrain from posting apologetics which shuts down open and honest discussions. Instead, let’s have an honest respect discussion between Christian siblings who have the same Heavenly Father.

[/quote]

What Christian faiths would oppose charity? Protestants and Catholics alike from my understanding believe faith without works is dead. Charitable works show our faith and our love for Christ. We have the same Father and the same Savior. I believe there are far more things of importance that unite us than the things that divide us.


#6

[quote="CMatt25, post:5, topic:307023"]
I believe there are far more things of importance that unite us than the things that divide us.

[/quote]

I agree and we should focus on them. Satan loves to divide and conquer. When I converted a friend (Baptist) had spoken to his pastor about Catholicism. Years ago a friend of his b/c a Priest and he has a lot of respect for him. As it turns out his friend is my Priest. Anyway, his pastor told him that there were many things about Catholicism with which we all agree on and that Christianity would move forward if we could all focus on what we have in common and not fight about the things on which we disagree. I agree with him. This pastor happens to be more of the fire and brimstone type of preacher. I was actually surprised he felt that way.


#7

This thread is going in the right direction for unity in the body of Christ. Here’s another one: Do Catholics and Protestants approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace through the same great high priest?

Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 4


#8

[quote="Christian_Unity, post:7, topic:307023"]
This thread is going in the right direction for unity in the body of Christ. Here's another one: Do Catholics and Protestants approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace through the same great high priest?

Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 4

[/quote]

Most definitely yes. This is a central tenet of Christianity. The difference lies in the economy of grace. For Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, perhaps most Lutherans, a very small portion of Methodists etc., this economy is a sacramental one.

For "mainstream" Protestants (Baptists, Calvinists, Presbyterians, Non-denomenationalists, etc.) this economy is a direct one from the Cross, with no secondary physical mediums. There's not a technical word for it, I don't think. It is simply a rejection of the sacramental economy.


#9

I would like to also add that I think Jehovah Witnesses would be included in this simplistic version of the gospel at this time. I say this as I see this thread moving in a direction that will begin to exclude certain “belivers”. “Beliving” being the bench mark.

Peace!!!


#10

As a convert I love this thread:) We all need each other- the divide is no longer I believe Catholic versus Protestant but Christians all over versus secular materialism, atheism, new age thought and many others things counter to Christ in our world. All believers on fire for the faith and radically in love with the person of Jesus Christ and who are following Him need to stand as one and however we get there works for me! I actually spent time in prayer today for Christian unity- this thread hits the spot:)

Blessings,

Val


#11

Great thread! To gain respect, you must show respect!


#12

This is still wrong, as it continues to only present a small part of the picture and not the whole of what the Pope actually said/wrote on the subject, but I am tried of arguing this point with you. I agree that it is important for Catholics and other Christians to work together against secularism, but please stop insisting that the differences between our faiths are unimportant.

That’s all I’m saying on this, as I’ve already engaged you in two other topics, during which you have promptly ignored every point I’ve made.


#13

when all christians have the same Father -in fact all of humanity- it is imprudent that self-righteous persons on this site, should consider themselves alone as God’s children, while maligning devotees of other religions; it follows that salvation is not restricted to any one faith!
this intolerance or arrogance is what makes religion the bane of humanity!


#14

Who says anyone one this site is “maligning devotees of other religions?” I can contest that a persons’s religion is incorrect without saying that they are going to Hell.


#15

Incorrect! Wow!


#16

[quote="Piwowar, post:15, topic:307023"]
Incorrect! Wow!

[/quote]

Would you care to expand on exactly who and what is incorrect?


#17

I certainly hope no one on this site is asserting that they “themselves alone [are] God’s children”. That is not a definitive matter. Now, it’s a different and more accurate thing to say that salvation is only within the Body of Christ. There is one Body to be resurrected at the end of time, and that is the Body of Christ. But to be clear, that is not to exclude special circumstances in which the grace of God is communicated in extraordinary ways, where people are brought into this Body under unique instances.

Peace and blessings,
Anthony


#18

[quote="Anthony_V, post:8, topic:307023"]
Most definitely yes. This is a central tenet of Christianity. The difference lies in the economy of grace. For Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, perhaps most Lutherans, a very small portion of Methodists etc., this economy is a sacramental one.

For "mainstream" Protestants (Baptists, Calvinists, Presbyterians, Non-denomenationalists, etc.) this economy is a direct one from the Cross, with no secondary physical mediums. There's not a technical word for it, I don't think. It is simply a rejection of the sacramental economy.

[/quote]

That's really good! We both agree that Jesus is full of grace and truth. When we think about it, Jesus walked a perfect obedient life to our Father's will, and died a sacrificial death for forgiveness of sins... which merited favor or grace on our behalf. We do access this grace in different ways, and yes Protestants vary in views regarding sacraments as a means of grace. I would say that Calvinist Presbyterians according to the Westminster Confession of Faith would believe the two Protestant sacraments are a means of sanctifying grace when received in faith.

I like that phrase of "economy of grace"! I do believe Catholics believe that sacramental grace needs to be received in faith too with the exception of infant baptism. Even though Catholic theology is a sacramental economy, I believe Catholics still receive grace in other ways besides the seven sacraments, correct? Do Catholics believe they receive grace when they read and mediate on the Sacred Scriptures on their own personal devotional time?


#19

I would leave Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons outside the circle of historic orthodox Christianity based on the denial of our Triune God. Therefore, I would not call for unity with those two religious groups with Catholics and Protestants.


#20

[quote="Lifesong, post:10, topic:307023"]
As a convert I love this thread:) We all need each other- the divide is no longer I believe Catholic versus Protestant but Christians all over versus secular materialism, atheism, new age thought and many others things counter to Christ in our world. All believers on fire for the faith and radically in love with the person of Jesus Christ and who are following Him need to stand as one and however we get there works for me! I actually spent time in prayer today for Christian unity- this thread hits the spot:)

Blessings,

Val

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


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