A Call for Reformation Within the Church

First, let me apologize for my former post (now closed) on the subject of the greatest enemy being within the Church. It was not a rant but a sincere reflection. In battle, the leaders always commit to knowing WHO their enemy is and then work from there to see how to overcome the enemy. This is the GREATEST battle of all, spiritual warfare, for our eternal souls. Yet the enemy will stop at nothing to win, with the ultimate victory being death of our physical body and our soul going to eternal hell.
“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” Eph. 6:12
“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” ~Matt. 10:28, etc.

I was proclaiming what is in the Word of God, which is the Truth that the greatest evil is within the churches. Paul writes of that in his Epistles (all verses shared are but a few of many):
2 Cor. 12-15: “…For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness…” etc.

The major prophets continuously warn against the false prophets in the OT:
“Jer. 23:16: “This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. 30: Therefore… I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 “They … lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them…”
Ez. 13: 3: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 4 …Their visions are false and their divinations, a lie. Even though the Lord has not sent them, they say, “The Lord declares,” and expect him to fulfill their words… though I have not spoken.
I Kings 13:33: Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall…” etc.

Jesus Christ was the most extreme against the highest Jewish leaders of his day:
“Woe to the Pharisees & Scribes”: Matt. 23, Mark 12, Luke 11, “Warnings Against Yeast of Pharisees”: Matt. 16, Mark 8, Luke 12, etc.

It’s the same today as it was back then. The Bible is not just a historical book. Again, I apologize if the former topic discussion came off as being disrespectful of the Catholic faith; this is a call for ALL denominations of faith to wake up to the Truth and me, being foremost of sinners, to reflect upon ourselves WITHIN the Church to become more like God. This begins with seeing who the enemy is and who the Victor is, which is God Almighty alone, who has the ultimate victory. Agree/Disagree and why?

Without studying this in great detail i can agree. Do you expect to find some who dont?


Edit: oh and welcome to CAF!

Well, I guess this doesn’t apply, because I am Catholic (which, since it didn’t break off of anything, is not a denomination)

There is no such thing as a Reformation if God’s Church had the truth from the beginning. Now of course there will always be goats mixed in with the sheep but this does not negate the fact that Christ gave his bride the eternal truth from heaven 2000 years ago. Protestants basically deny this and say that Christ did not give his Church the truth 2000 years ago but 1500 years later through the enlightenment of Martin Luther. Who emphasized certain portions of Paul and rejected the writings of Peter, John and James. It’s just absurd.

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Yes, you are correct in stating that the Protestant Reformation beginning with Martin Luther’s Disputation on the Power of Indulgences was not fully correct. We can never reject certain portions of Scripture and favor other portions as ALL Scripture is written for a purpose. Each word, down to the last letter, has deep meaning and was never meant to be added to or taken away.

“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.” Rev. 22:18-19

However, there is a time for the new order as written in Hebrews 9: 7-10: “But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.”

And this time is now, the Universal Seventh Day, in which the entire prophecy of God’s Word is being fulfilled, which began with Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection, but is not yet completed. Otherwise, why would sin still be rampant in the world…?

If you’re interested, there’s a great series of broadcasts on this subject on a YouTube Channel I’m currently watching. It is a great study on this topic being currently discussed. This is what I’m learning about true reformation and the greatest enemy being within the church walls, based on a lot of Scripture. It’s quite thought-provoking. If you’re interested, I can give you more information on that channel.

As has already been stated, we are Catholic. It is a Church, not a denomination. So you really are not addressing us in your call. But yes, do follow your call, come home to the Truth. Swim the Tiber.


Im really not interested in youtube as a rule of faith, i hope you understand.


Thanks for the warm welcome. It’s nice to be here and read from others who are also fervently searching for God’s Word and seeking to follow God to the end. I know what I write may sound very obvious, but I myself never realized this Truth until a few years ago.

I grew up my whole life in the Wesleyan Nazarene faith but left the Nazarene faith on a journey of learning the entire Scriptures based on the more complete spiritual interpretation of the Word of God, using Scripture to interpret Scripture (and not human theology and reasoning). I’m now learning: 1. Contextually 2. Historically 3. Literally [physical] 4. Spiritually [figurative, deeper] 5. Progressive Interpretation (I’m learning that the Bible is not just about the Israelite’s history; it is OUR story) 6. Using a translation nationally accepted and referring back to the original languages the Bible was written in (Hebrew, Greek and a little Aramaic)

May we all know the Eternal Truth of God’s Word in complete wholeness, as proclaimed in I Cor. 13:10: “But when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.”

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No worries, that’s why I didn’t give the details unless you asked. The broadcasts are live recordings of studies on God’s Word (not just visually appealing broadcasts meant for garnering thousands of views because of splashy, worldly-appealing tactics). Thanks again for responding so thoughtfully~

This applies to all who profess to follow God and are searching for His Word in their lives. Forgive me for the error in adding “denomination” incorrectly. I will most certainly be more careful when posting as God holds me accountable for what I say (write) or don’t say (write). If I’m at fault in any way to turning off those from learning more of the Truth due to my human weaknesses (writing incorrectly), I will learn from this and won’t repeat it :slight_smile: Thanks~

Remember, the bible as you know it was in existence until 4th century so you might consider the the alternate rule of faith that was in existence prior to that time, oral tradition.


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The Reformation fails in their rejection of:

Good works which all the apostles including Paul advocated.

And Holy tradition which all the apostles including Paul advocated.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. 2Thess. 2:15-17


As someone else said, it’s a little bit hard to disagree with what you’ve written. But I will say this. I think it is very much more important to pursue holiness, than to pursue being the truth police. Those who are holy cannot help but to reform the group of believers that are around them, and they do so in a beautiful , winsome way. Without trying, without policing the beliefs of others, they inspire others to passionately follow and seek more of the truth, which will always lead to greater holiness. And pursuing holiness is the best way to sharpen your own senses for what is or is not true. So for me, it is all about “seek ye first the kingdom”, which of course, is “in you”.


And first, as regards the necessity or voluntariness of good works, it is manifest that in the Augsburg Confession and its Apology these expressions are often used and repeated that good works are necessary. Likewise, that it is necessary to do good works, which also are necessarily to follow faith and reconciliation. Likewise, that we necessarily are to do and must do such good works as God has commanded. Thus also in the Holy Scriptures themselves the words necessity, needful, and necessary, likewise, ought and must, are used concerning what we are bound to do because of God’s ordinance, command, and will, as Rom. 13:5; 1 Cor. 9:9; Acts 5:29; John 15:12; 1 John 4:21.


The problem isn’t the RCC; it’s people, including leaders-not heeding her teachings-always has been, even back in the day: “So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.” Matt 23:3

And yes, we know the Bible is more than a history book. And the Church is more than a human institution; its something God established to receive, preserve, and proclaim the gospel accurately. There would be no Christian faith today without her. But to address your point she teaches:

853 On her pilgrimage, the Church has also experienced the "discrepancy existing between the message she proclaims and the human weakness of those to whom the Gospel has been entrusted."348 Only by taking the “way of penance and renewal,” the “narrow way of the cross,” can the People of God extend Christ’s reign.349 For "just as Christ carried out the work of redemption in poverty and oppression, so the Church is called to follow the same path if she is to communicate the fruits of salvation to men."350

827 “Christ, ‘holy, innocent, and undefiled,’ knew nothing of sin, but came only to expiate the sins of the people. The Church, however, clasping sinners to her bosom, at once holy and always in need of purification, follows constantly the path of penance and renewal.” All members of the Church, including her ministers, must acknowledge that they are sinners. In everyone, the weeds of sin will still be mixed with the good wheat of the Gospel until the end of time. Hence the Church gathers sinners already caught up in Christ’s salvation but still on the way to holiness:

The Church is therefore holy, though having sinners in her midst, because she herself has no other life but the life of grace. If they live her life, her members are sanctified; if they move away from her life, they fall into sins and disorders that prevent the radiation of her sanctity. This is why she suffers and does penance for those offenses, of which she has the power to free her children through the blood of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit.


I’m not sure if there’s any need for actual reform. I think the Church is good as is. We just need to keep clear of the kooks, goofballs and heretics that, I assume for the most part; honestly believe their errors. I figure only a small number knowingly teach false doctrine that endangers souls.

Is the Eucharist one of the good works that are necessary?

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 1Cor. 11:27-29

Paul not the pope said the unworthy people don’t discern the Lord’s body in the sacrament.

The Eucharist is a Sacrament instituted by Christ, not a work on our part.


What’s your point?

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The Eucharist is most certainly a ‘work’ on our part where we either eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood or reject it altogether and don’t partake. This is basic 101 where even the definition of ‘work’ or ‘act’ is apparently not understood by some.

So, you take the Eucharist. I receive it humbly, not as a work, but in thankful appreciation for His work on the cross.
I guess we disagree on who did the work.

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