A couple of questions about mass today


#1

So I went to church today (vigil mass), and I had a couple of questions.

  1. After the homily but before the Profession of Faith, Father had a lady come up and read what seemed to be a children’s book (with a moral lesson in it) as what I gathered to be a reflection of some sort on the Gospel and homily. It had a moral point to it (sort of), but was not religious in nature. I certainly found this whole thing to be irregular, but I wasn’t sure what the ‘rules’ are when it comes to the homily. Can/should other people participate like that?

  2. It wasn’t explained why, but instead of the Nicene Creed, the Apostles’ Creed was recited as the Profession of Faith. I thought this was usually associated with things like Baptism, Confirmation, chaplets, etc. I’m not sure that I’ve ever heard it recited at mass in place of the Nicene Creed. Did this just happen at the church I was at, or was that everywhere today? And, are the two interchangeable during the mass?

Thanks much


#2

Having this woman read something was definitely irregular. Whether or not it was illicit I don't know. Seems sketchy.

It is perfectly legitimate to use either creed at any time.


#3

The first one, when the woman read a book with a moral story…is NOT allowed at all. The homily is for the Priest alone, or the Deacon if there is on. No lay Catholic can give a homily OR read the gospel at Mass.

The Apostles Creed can be recited instead of the Nicene, that’s allowed.


#4

It was stated that this was NOT the homily. It was was following the homily.

Still not good.


#5

[quote="LoyalViews, post:3, topic:293260"]
The first one, when the woman read a book with a moral story...is NOT allowed at all. The homily is for the Priest alone, or the Deacon if there is on. No lay Catholic can give a homily OR read the gospel at Mass.

The Apostles Creed can be recited instead of the Nicene, that's allowed.

[/quote]

A few years ago I attended a Mass where a religious sister preached the homily. What about that?


#6

The Apostle's Creed has been the norm for centuries. Not to sound snarky, but a wordier profession isn't necessarily more holy than a (relatively) simple and plain language profession.


#7

[quote="grasscutter, post:6, topic:293260"]
The Apostle's Creed has been the norm for centuries. Not to sound snarky, but a wordier profession isn't necessarily more holy than a (relatively) simple and plain language profession.

[/quote]

I don't disagree, in fact in a way I prefer the Apostles' Creed as a basic profession of faith. I just can't recall ever hearing it at Sunday mass.


#8

[quote="Catholic4Christ, post:7, topic:293260"]
I don't disagree, in fact in a way I prefer the Apostles' Creed as a basic profession of faith. I just can't recall ever hearing it at Sunday mass.

[/quote]

The Apostle's Creed has not always been an every Sunday option for adult* American* Catholics. But it is now.


#9

[quote="Catholic4Christ, post:7, topic:293260"]
I don't disagree, in fact in a way I prefer the Apostles' Creed as a basic profession of faith. I just can't recall ever hearing it at Sunday mass.

[/quote]

I have, but usually the profession of faith is the Nicene Creed. The Apostle's Creed, so I understand, is used mostly for Masses involving children and young people.


#10

[quote="SMHW, post:8, topic:293260"]
The Apostle's Creed has not always been an every Sunday option for adult* American* Catholics. But it is now.

[/quote]

Way, way back... even after the Council of Nicea... the Apostle's Creed was given to cathecumens to learn prior to being baptized and confirmed into the Church.


#11

[quote="grasscutter, post:10, topic:293260"]
Way, way back... even after the Council of Nicea... the Apostle's Creed was given to cathecumens to learn prior to being baptized and confirmed into the Church.

[/quote]

Sometimes I feel old enough to just about remember that:shrug:


#12

[quote="Catholic4Christ, post:1, topic:293260"]

...
1) After the homily but before the Profession of Faith, Father had a lady come up and read what seemed to be a children's book (with a moral lesson in it) as what I gathered to be a reflection of some sort on the Gospel and homily. It had a moral point to it (sort of), but was not religious in nature. I certainly found this whole thing to be irregular, but I wasn't sure what the 'rules' are when it comes to the homily. Can/should other people participate like that?
...

[/quote]

This is licit.

See affirmative response from apologist Michelle Arnold, in Can a layperson give a talk after a short homily?

As long as the priest or deacon gives the homily, shortened though it may be, a layperson can give a talk after the homily. I agree with you that such a talk is better placed after the post-Communion meditation and right before the final blessing, but some may be concerned that not as many congregants will hear the talk because of the early-birds who leave right after Communion.

In my parish, we have, about four times a year, a short homily followed by an address from a layman or religious. These addresses are usually a report from a mission field, or the biannual fund-raiser.

If this were frequent and/or without an apparent justification, then you would have some cause for concern, but once in a while, for a good reason, is acceptable.


#13

It sounds like the Mass you attended may have been a children’s Mass. The Apostle’s Creed may be said at a children’s Mass, and the fact that a child’s book was read after the homily sounds like they were trying to present something to the children’s level.


#14

[quote="Edmundus1581, post:12, topic:293260"]
See affirmative response from apologist Michelle Arnold, in Can a layperson give a talk after a short homily?

[/quote]

In the autumn some churches have "Time and Talent" Sundays where a short talk is given after the homily for people to sign up for committees, choir, music ministry, usher duty, etc for the coming year. Or perhaps a retreat is coming up and someone gets up and speaks about that.


#15

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:9, topic:293260"]
I have, but usually the profession of faith is the Nicene Creed. The Apostle's Creed, so I understand, is used mostly for Masses involving children and young people.

[/quote]

Here in the Philippines it is only the Apostles Creed which is used at Mass.


#16

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:9, topic:293260"]
I have, but usually the profession of faith is the Nicene Creed. The Apostle's Creed, so I understand, is used mostly for Masses involving children and young people.

[/quote]

The Apostles Creed was used as part of the rosary and on some other occasions. The Nicene Creed was used exclusively for Sunday Masses prior to the vernacular being used in the liturgy. Many if not most Catholics were not familiar with the Nicene Creed in the vernacular; thus the Apostles Creed was allowed.


#17

[quote="thistle, post:15, topic:293260"]
Here in the Philippines it is only the Apostles Creed which is used at Mass.

[/quote]

And, totally nothing wrong with that. It is a valid Profession of Faith! Peace be with you in the Philippines! The two wonderful priests at my parish come from there.


#18

[quote="SMHW, post:4, topic:293260"]
It was stated that this was NOT the homily. It was was following the homily.

Still not good.

[/quote]

OH! I'm getting my eyes checked. This is not the first mistake I've made....thank you for correcting me :)

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:5, topic:293260"]
A few years ago I attended a Mass where a religious sister preached the homily. What about that?

[/quote]

No, it's really not allowed...I mean, who am I to say...I'm not an expert, but the GIRM does say...

  1. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the Priest Celebrant himself or be entrusted by him to a concelebrating Priest, or from time to time and, if appropriate, to the Deacon, but never to a lay person.* In particular cases and for a just cause, the Homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

It says nothing about the religious, but no, I don't think it is.


#19

[quote="grasscutter, post:17, topic:293260"]
And, totally nothing wrong with that. It is a valid Profession of Faith! Peace be with you in the Philippines! The two wonderful priests at my parish come from there.

[/quote]

From what I saw on the web not too long ago, Masses there are so full that some parishes have to set up in shopping malls to accomodate all the people!:thumbsup:


#20

[quote="Catholic4Christ, post:7, topic:293260"]
I don't disagree, in fact in a way I prefer the Apostles' Creed as a basic profession of faith. I just can't recall ever hearing it at Sunday mass.

[/quote]

in my parish, every Sunday the pastor (and only priest) uses the Apostles Creed and not the Nicene Creed. Every other parish I go to they use the Nicene Creed


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