A fan of Billy Graham


#1

As a Catholic I have always enjoyed listening to Billy Graham - didn’t always agree with him. What worries me is that Billy is at the ends of his life and he still rejects the Truths of the True Church of Christ - the Catholic Church!

Billy is a smart educated man - there can be no ingnorance of truth here. We will all be judged by what we believe and what we choose to believe! I worry for him on the day he stands before God! I pray for his conversion and I ask others to do like wise!

God Bless!


#2

Hi 88,

You mean only dumb Protestants can go to heaven? Have you thought this through?

To know and do the right thing, it is not enough to be smart. We need God’s grace. Perhaps, God does not see fit to give B. Graham the grace to find the Catholic Church. What’s more, perhaps B. Graham has corresponded with the graces he did receive more generously than you and I have.

Verbum


#3

“”"Hi 88,

You mean only dumb Protestants can go to heaven? Have you thought this through?

To know and do the right thing, it is not enough to be smart. We need God’s grace. Perhaps, God does not see fit to give B. Graham the grace to find the Catholic Church. What’s more, perhaps B. Graham has corresponded with the graces he did receive more generously than you and I have.

Verbum""""

Good Point, Verbum


#4

Pray for him. I will too. He is a good christian man. He respects Catholicism and has met with Pope John Paul II. He might be in sometype of doubt about a couple specific doctrines or dogmas of the Catholic Church. He is smart but that doesn’t mean he knows everything and I don’t think he’s a theologian. Protestant ministers like him mostly spend their time reading scripture, composing lectures, and stuff. He probably never spent much time reading theological books or researching the Catholic Church or Church history. In the end only Christ can be judge, and I hope I get to meet him in heaven.:slight_smile: I don’t know much about him, I guess I’m too young.:o


#5

There are people who have been so poisoned against the Church as children that they cannot conceive the idea that the Church really could be the Church founded on Christ and the Apostles. It’s a barrier they cannot seem to overcome. They simply cannot let go of what their parents (and perhaps their grandparents and so on, back as far as they can tell) believed.

We see this in the example of C. S. Lewis, thought to be the most ecumenical Protestant of his time. And even he referred to Irish Catholics “bog-jumpers” and other derogatory language. It was so ingrained in him as a child by his maternal grandfather that the Catholic Church was evil that even though he knew better he still couldn’t let himself be persuaded, using a lame excuse for not converting that any amateur apologist on this board could quickly refute.

Some people cannot/will not have it so. No one can or could make them understand and/or accept the truth because they simply are not capable of accepting it with the baggage of their learned bias clinging to their innards like a cancer that cannot be rooted out. They feel their whole world and reason for existence would have to chucked in order to “cross the Tiber” and they just can’t do it.


#6

[quote=Della]There are people who have been so poisoned against the Church as children that they cannot conceive the idea that the Church really could be the Church founded on Christ and the Apostles. It’s a barrier they cannot seem to overcome. They simply cannot let go of what their parents (and perhaps their grandparents and so on, back as far as they can tell) believed.

We see this in the example of C. S. Lewis, thought to be the most ecumenical Protestant of his time. And even he referred to Irish Catholics “bog-jumpers” and other derogatory language. It was so ingrained in him as a child by his maternal grandfather that the Catholic Church was evil that even though he knew better he still couldn’t let himself be persuaded, using a lame excuse for not converting that any amateur apologist on this board could quickly refute.

Some people cannot/will not have it so. No one can or could make them understand and/or accept the truth because they simply are not capable of accepting it with the baggage of their learned bias clinging to their innards like a cancer that cannot be rooted out. They feel their whole world and reason for existence would have to chucked in order to “cross the Tiber” and they just can’t do it.
[/quote]

So, true and sad.:frowning: I’m sure there are protestants out there who in their souls and hearts they want to convert, but something in their mind tells them not too.


#7

I don’t see why our Lord would deny the grace of conversion when someone is fit and ready! How does the saying go, “you can walk the horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”!

Peace be with you!


#8

[quote=Della].

We see this in the example of C. S. Lewis, thought to be the most ecumenical Protestant of his time. And even he referred to Irish Catholics “bog-jumpers” and other derogatory language. It was so ingrained in him as a child by his maternal grandfather that the Catholic Church was evil that even though he knew better he still couldn’t let himself be persuaded, using a lame excuse for not converting that any amateur apologist on this board could quickly refute.

.
[/quote]

And he knew Tolkien! However, though I don’t know, I believe we’ll see Lewis and Dr. Graham in Heaven.


#9

[quote=auhsoj88]I don’t see why our Lord would deny the grace of conversion when someone is fit and ready! How does the saying go, “you can walk the horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”!

Peace be with you!
[/quote]

I don’t much about his personal life, but I would say that if he doesn’t get to heaven or at least purgatory, we’re all in deep trouble. Down through the years, I have never heard a bad story about him, and if there were any, the media would have exploited it by now. Even he hasn’t embraced all the truths of the Catholic church, I have the utmost respect for him. When he dies, we will lose a great Christian minister. God bless.


#10

[quote=auhsoj88]I don’t see why our Lord would deny the grace of conversion when someone is fit and ready! How does the saying go, “you can walk the horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”!

Peace be with you!
[/quote]

Amen! Thanks. I forgot to mention that God does give that grace to all even cradle Catholics who also need conversion.
Saying that God does not give the grace to non-Catholic Christians to convert to Catholicism is in somewhat contradiction to the following:

**819 **“Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”


#11

We don’t know God’s plan nor can we presume to judge Billy. Maybe God used Billy to bring hundreds of thousands of non-believers to Him…even if they weren’t yet in perfect communion. Maybe Billy’s message was the only thing their hearts could hear at the time. I really think he falls into the category that a lot of Protestants I’ve met fall into which is a respect for Catholics, but a sincere belief that we make things harder than they have to be when it comes to Jesus. Remember, many Protestants believe all one needs to do is accept Christ as their personal Lord and savior and they’re good to go. In their view, we Catholics just go a little overboard on stuff, but we all arrive at the same place in the end. I’ve never heard him encourage people to leave Catholicism and follow him. This is just conjecture of course, but his Purgatory could be the realization that Christ really is present in the Eucharist and he could have experienced his Savior in a much more profound and intimate manner…and used his gift of preaching to bring that realization to others. Who knows? Well, God knows, but the rest of us can just chalk it up to a mystery to be solved after we join our Lord in Heaven.


#12

[quote=Roman_Army]Amen! Thanks. I forgot to mention that God does give that grace to all even cradle Catholics who also need conversion.
Saying that God does not give the grace to non-Catholic Christians to convert to Catholicism is in somewhat contradiction to the following:

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
[/quote]

I bolded the citation above. The last sentence does NOT mean that they will not attain salvation if they don’t join formally the Catholic Church. The Catechism clearly states that Christ uses their churches as “means of salvation,” but that what those churches have that is salvific, they get from Catholicism. And in the end, all who are saved are saved through the Catholic Church. Of course, they SHOULD become Catholic.


#13

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