A friend living in sin


#1

So, I recently spoke to my best friend. We’ve known each other for about 10 years now, been buddies since the first day we met. He has always been a bit of a casual Catholic, going to Church at Christmas, maybe once or twice at other times.

Anyway, here’s the story.

The girl he is dating… I’ll make this short, and try be as PG as possible.

They met in the last year of High School. They started sleeping together while she had a boyfriend (dated for 2 years). They slept together as a secretive couple until the end of High School, where she finally broke up with her boyfriend and started dating my friend. Not a good start to begin with considering the whole thing was an ‘affair’.

Anyway, they have been dating now for about 3 years. It never bothered me before, 1 because I never particularly liked this girl, and 2 because I wasn’t aware or interested of theology of the body etc until a few months ago. But here’s where I have problems:

  1. They sleep together all the time. All the time.
  2. He has admitted that he has absolutely no intention of ever marrying her
  3. He once said he contemplated breaking up with her, but didn’t because he knew he would only go out and have sex with lots of strangers because he loves sex so much, and he didn’t want to do that to himself.
  4. She is very much in love with him (I say ‘in love’ in the secular way, it isnt true love really) and yet see point 2.

I hate to see my best friend actually treating a girl like this, and I hate to see him get involved in sex before marriage in such a… dirty… way. I don’t know how to approach him or what to say.

I know he will call me a hypocrite bearing in mind history with my ex girlfriend (which I completely regret, and admit as much, confessed, cried about, the whole shebang). But he also has a lot of pride. Lots and lots of it.

It just hurts me to see what I hate so much being done by my best buddy, who is otherwise a stand up guy. Deans list, top sportsmen, respected, you know?

Sigh :confused:


#2

This is a tough one. I think it's great that you are concerned, and this sounds like a bad relationship both spiritually and from a secular perspective. What you know about both of them is that they take intimacy and promises pretty lightly, b/c she concealed her relationship with him from her high school bf and he presumably is not being upfront w/her about never wanting to marry her. I assume that is the case.

I'm not sure what advice to give but it seems like they are both being driven by their emotions/desire for companionship and pleasure. What would concern me most is if they are taking risks such that she ends up having an abortion or they bring a child into the relationship. That doesn't mean they are doing the right thing themselves but a child would be helpless in this.

Maybe other posters will have some advice.


#3

Why does he say he would not marry her?


#4

Oh ya, forgot to add that she is on the pill, they sometimes use condoms, but mostly they go unprotected. He's told me that they have had so much unprotected sex they should statistically have had at least 5 babies by now (jokingly said, of course...). If they ever do get pregnant, she would most definitely opt for abortion (and I'm not certain it hasn't happened already mind you)

Why would he not marry her? Thats hard to say, I asked him and never really got a response that meant anything. He just said its never going to happen.


#5

From what you wrote, it appears that your friend is not only 'living in sin', but 'living in mortal sin' (you say he only attends mass few times a year), and I'm assuming that he is NOT confessing on a regular basis (correct me if I'm wrong here, please).
This is particularly bad because if your friend would be struck dead, wouldn't he (as a proclaimed catholic) be concerned for his soul, being in a state of mortal sin, on his death? Something for him to ponder. Maybe even tell him YOU are worried about this, as he probably cannot see it (living in mortal sin makes you blind/unaware of such things).
Something I heard on EWTN this week; you can pray for your friend, but If your friend is obviously in a state of mortal sin, you will have to do more that just pray, because your friend needs to be in a state of grace (venial sin only) to be receptive to the graces from God due to your prayers. Being in mortal sin cuts him off completely from Gods Graces- as he is completely turned away from God. Ask him what he thinks of this.
Maybe also ask him to say a prayer TOGETHER with you. A Hail Mary. Sometimes, this is all it takes to initiate a conversion (back towards God, penance, and a state of Grace).
Jesus called certain people hypocrites because they would not change their ways or even be repentant; big difference between one who (committed a certain sin in their past), and one who continues to commit it knowingly and is unrepentant about it.


#6

I don't believe he has been to confession since his first time, probably around 12 years ago.He hasn't been confirmed either.

Well, its the reason I posted, because we touched on it today in conversation (we use instant messenger occasionally cos we are at different colleges) and I directed him towards the Chastity.com website. He told me he'd have a look but he isn't "really into that right now" and that maybe one day he'll return to the Church. I mentioned mortal sin, and how if it goes unrepented you are denied heaven, and he simply said, "well I guess that puts me in a bit of a pickle" and carried on to a different topic of convo!


#7

The key is not to 'point out the sin', but rather to 'point out the solution'.

Jesus is the solution, and he can 'undo' all the mistakes of the past - no sin is too great for him to forgive; you must convince your friend of this message of hope. There are plenty of folks (priests, etc) that are more than happy to help your friend; plus, show him this site. . . .

If your friend is 'worried' that breaking with the girl will just make him susceptible to graver habits and temptations, then he is giving lust too much power over himself (there are 6 other 'grave/deadly' sins that he can fall susceptible to (problem) . . . .the SOLUTION is to become aware of the Virtues to overcome them, and how to practice them. Have your friend do a google search on ' 7 deadly sins' and then on the '7 heavenly virtues' which are the opposite of the sins, and how to avoid them.


#8

Your situation is a tough one, my friend.

For me and my friends, I do the, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".. They don't ask my views on morals, and I don't tell them.. However, if they ask me, I'll be happy to tell them what I think of what they are doing.

You need to remember something-if someone calls you a hypocrite, who cares? Just pointing out that the accuser is guilty of the same thing doesn't mean it justifies the accused's behavior. Just don't act like a jerk about it-a holier than thou, sanctimonious person doesn't win converts...or friends.


#9

Let me just pipe in that suggesting marriage her might not be prudential. If a woman is willing to cheat on one partner, she is probably willing to cheat on another. Conversion of heart is possible, but the burden is on her to show it, not the other way around (not that your friend sounds like he has an exceptional character himself, no offense).

Aside from that, you have to realize that this is one problem set within the larger context of lukewarmness toward the faith. You're not going to convince someone lukewarm to avoid premarital sex.


#10

Rascal, yeah, it is tough, and usually im also very ‘dont ask dont tell’ but you know, this situation actually offends me! I know, it probably shouldn’t, but what is going on here seems to be a pure lustful relationship. It’s just not good.

But as OAO pointed out, the difficulty is that he is by all accounts basically an agnostic. I wouldn’t even say luke-warm Catholic. So how do I get to him!?!

I just want him to know the damage that he is doing to the girl and to himself. By the way, he used to hate this girl actually, because she slept around a lot and he thought it was disgusting. Now… I’m no psychologist, but she grew up without a father, so that possible has something to do with it. But I mean, I cant stop others from engaging in harmful spiritual damage when it comes to the body, but my own friend I do want to say “HEY! LOOK! This is very bad”. Even if he doesn’t stop it, which he wont, I want im to realise.

And yeah, it is sad that he is so taken over by his lust. It’s a strange society we live in where lust controls us all and we don’t seem to mind.


#11

[quote="NewsTheMan, post:10, topic:196810"]
Rascal, yeah, it is tough, and usually im also very 'dont ask dont tell' but you know, this situation actually offends me! I know, it probably shouldn't, but what is going on here seems to be a pure lustful relationship. It's just not good.

.

[/quote]

No, it SHOULD bother and offend you. It does me as well!

Your in my prayers, my friend.


#12

Newstheman,

It was good of you to point out to your friend the spiritual danger in his situation.. Scripture does tell us to "admonish the sinner", and you did it in a loving way. Your friend may have to hit bottom before he responds to grace and changes his ways.

You are not a hypocrite because you have repented and understood that what you had been involved in was sinful.


#13

i have to say from a woman's perspective, you can mention this to your best friend, but ultimately the decision falls on him. he has to decide for himself whether he wants to continue in this type of life. its up to him. what you can do is pray for both of them.

have a Mass said for them both. now that being said, i think the girl needs to grow up and be more responsible. she is not the wifely type. if she cheated once, who is to say she wont tire of your friend and do it to him? i don't blame him for not wanting to marry her. look at her past. this is likely the reason why he wont marry her. he is using her basically and that is wrong. doesn't matter what she has done in the past, no one deserves to be used. he should end with her and tell her before she gets to serious about him that he has no feelings for her and that there is no future for them. she is being used. that is not right. both of them are in sin and that is a fact. you are more likely to get through to the girl than him. men tend to do what they want and can be hard headed believe me. you should tell her the truth if he wont. because she is being led on and that is unfair. maybe she has changed and wont cheat on him, i don't know. but she deserves the truth. if he wont tell her you should gently tell her yourself. but, keep in mind that that could ruin your friendship with this guy. so its a tough decision. i'd talk to your priest before you do anything.

i wish you the best. this is not a good situation. remember, talk to the priest first. do not do anything until you speak to the priest and take his advice to heart.


#14

Thank you for the replies!

I don't have a good relationship with this girl at all, because of what has been mentioned, I found her past very suspicious and didn't think her good enough for my friend. Add to that the fact that she is unbelievably blindly in love with him, I dont think speaking to her would do anything.

Besides that, I can't speak to her behind his back, I just can't.

I think I am going to gather my resources, my online friends opinions ( :thumbsup: ) and write him an email saying what I feel. I won't make it overly religious, because that will scare him away, but I will add in religious stuff.

One thing that I have been going through in my head that I just find unbelievable is remembering the conversation we had when he wanted to break up with her. He said he loves sex so much that he could never break up with her, because she gives it to him and he's scared he'll get an STD from being 'too horny'. I don't mean to sound dramatic but that is pure Satan at work right there :eek: its frightening!


#15

[quote="NewsTheMan, post:14, topic:196810"]
Thank you for the replies!

I don't have a good relationship with this girl at all, because of what has been mentioned, I found her past very suspicious and didn't think her good enough for my friend. Add to that the fact that she is unbelievably blindly in love with him, I dont think speaking to her would do anything.

Besides that, I can't speak to her behind his back, I just can't.

I think I am going to gather my resources, my online friends opinions ( :thumbsup: ) and write him an email saying what I feel. I won't make it overly religious, because that will scare him away, but I will add in religious stuff.

One thing that I have been going through in my head that I just find unbelievable is remembering the conversation we had when he wanted to break up with her. He said he loves sex so much that he could never break up with her, because she gives it to him and he's scared he'll get an STD from being 'too horny'. I don't mean to sound dramatic but that is pure Satan at work right there :eek: its frightening!

[/quote]

not that iam defending the girl but she is going to get hurt. that is bad. like i mentioned to you, talk to your priest. she does not deserve to be hurt neither does your friend. he is using her. the deeper her feelings for him, the more badly she is going to be hurt. i hope and pray that they do not have children. that would be worse. the child could end up aborted, or unwanted and split between father and mother. its not fair for your friend to lead the girl on whether or not you like her is irrelevent, i don't care how badly his hormones are raging he needs to not use the girl.

people can change too, don't forget that. he needs to be careful how he let's her down and not do it in a cruel way. he needs to be gentle with her and treat her with respect. don't forget that the greater the sinner the more right he/she has to God's mercy as was told to Saint Faustina.


#16

I totally agree! I think she deserves more, one hundred percent!

But I can kind of predict his response, he'll say "I only said that then but its complicated you dont understand" or something similar. For most people dating isn't actually discerning marriage, its merely, date cos you're hot and convenient.

I don't think he'll break up with her. And I do believe he loves her. Maybe just as much as she loves him. But its all selfish love. Disguised as "true love".
Its sad.


#17

Bump :smiley:


#18

[quote="NewsTheMan, post:10, topic:196810"]
. . . but what is going on here seems to be a pure lustful relationship. **It's just not good.
But as OAO pointed out, the difficulty is that he is **by all accounts basically an agnostic
. I wouldn't even say luke-warm Catholic. So how do I get to him!?!
. . .
And yeah, it is sad that** he is so taken over by his lust.** It's a strange society we live in where** lust controls us all and we don't seem to mind**.

[/quote]

Print this out, and ask him to check all the ones that seem to apply: (stolen from another threads post:)

*I think it may be time to consider the daughters of lust. Again, lust is a capital vice. All capital vices have daughters.

Here is what I know about lust. It is defined as an inordinate desire for venereal pleasure. It is a mortal sin. Some of the daughters of lust are:

Blindness of the intellect. Drags us into thinking that things are good when they are not. Mitigates the ability to grasp the truth.

Precipitation: Destruction of council. Destroys prudence which is part of council. Doomed to foolishness and stupid behavior

Inconsideration: Thoughtlessness. Destroys judgment of what is the best means to an end. Person might know the means, but judges wrongly. ie knows that mortification will help but chooses gluttony instead

Inconstancy: has trouble keeping the course. Know the right thing but acts out of accordance.

Disordered love of self: Because a person loves to satisfy himself he becomes selfish - 6 and 9 commandments. Disordered self love makes it hard to love another.

Develops a hatred of God. Lust is prohibited so he starts to hate God.

Love of the present life. One becomes fixated on this life.

Desperation of the future life: Despair. One thinks that he will not be saved because it becomes too difficult.

Incircumspection: Can't judge past circumstances correctly. Loose track of who they are

Glutony: hard time remaining temperant regarding food. The same faculty is involved in lust and gluttony. Fasting tends to reduce lust.

Losses fortitude:

Effeminacy: unwillingness to be separated from pleasure to pursue that which is arduous. The solitary sin causes effeminacy. Leads to androgyny. Men wearing jewelry and makeup. Men trying to look nice in a way which proper to women.

Destruction of modesty. Reveal that which is unsuitable

Pride arises.

Lust doesn't want any restrictions. Work against societal norms. Because he can't control himself he wants to control others.
*


#19

[quote="NewsTheMan, post:4, topic:196810"]
Oh ya, forgot to add that she is on the pill, they sometimes use condoms, but mostly they go unprotected. He's told me that they have had so much unprotected sex they should statistically have had at least 5 babies by now (jokingly said, of course...). If they ever do get pregnant, she would most definitely opt for abortion (and I'm not certain it hasn't happened already mind you)

Why would he not marry her? Thats hard to say, I asked him and never really got a response that meant anything. He just said its never going to happen.

[/quote]

One thing I'd point out - I wouldn't get too hung up on the fact that they use contraception. The bigger issue here, I think, is they are fooling around before marraige (i.e. if they were doing the right thing in the first place, the whole contraception issue would be moot.)


#20

[quote="ComputerGeek25, post:19, topic:196810"]
One thing I'd point out - I wouldn't get too hung up on the fact that they use contraception. The bigger issue here, I think, is they are fooling around before marraige (i.e. if they were doing the right thing in the first place, the whole contraception issue would be moot.)

[/quote]

Haha, yeah, of course. But the issue is still an issue nevertheless!

Ah man, lust. The moder day perversion of love :(


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