A Gay Marriage question

Hi,
I’m hoping to attend RCIA this winter and become a Catholic, but I have sort of a dilemma.

I am a Christian, my family is protestant.(I want to convert to Catholicism,I don’t attend a protestant church). I think gay marriage is morally wrong. I also support legalizing gay marriage. Because I recognize that the US Government governs using the constitution and not the Bible.

Will i still be able to become a Catholic? Isn’t it like forbidden for those who support gay marriage to become one? I am open minded so if you can provide an argument to convince me feel free.

Is Jesus your king?

Yes, and I get your point.

I’m sort of just having an identity crisis with my beliefs and somewhat recent “call” to become catholic.

Are you willing to assent and obey the teachings even though you may struggle with them intellectually?

Yes.

One of our responsibilities as Christians is to try to engage in the affairs of the world and direct them according to God’s will. You said you agree that gay marriage is morally wrong. Why? Why is it good for it to be legal if it is morally wrong? How does that help people?

Furthermore, I would dispute your assumption that gay marriage is inevitable if one follows the Constitution. Four of the Supreme Court judges agree.

Then RCIA should be a productive time for you. This kind of issue is what you will want to bring up at an appropriate time during the process.

In the meantime, I suggest you check out the website Discussing Marriage. It provides many arguments in favor of traditional marriage and against the redefinition of marriage.

Good. I’m glad you follow the logic.

I can identify with the situation you are in now. When I converted my political views were essentially Libertarian, but I came to see that this conflicted with my faith.

By supporting gay marriage, you are basically saying you support people placing their eternal souls in danger. Now, I know that there is already innumerable civil laws that allow and encourage people to persist in grave sin, and these souls will most likely continue in their sin regarless of the law, but just because our society is imperfect does not mean we can support measures that will make it even more imperfect.

Good suggestion, but I fear the response you may recieve depending on where and by who the RCIA class is attended and led.

This issue came up in my RCIA class, and there was no attempt to explain the Church’s teaching. Instead the leader told the questioner to, “not let this keep you from the Church.” :eek:

Adam 95

Your smiley made me laugh!

Yeah. Why answer the question and risk loosing a convert? :eek:

For Verify: Too tired to get into this but: Who has more authority God or man?? God made the original rules going back to Adam and Eve. Who are we to change them? Every time man tries to change God’s rules we make problems for ourselves. Think about what’s wrong with these:
premarital sex
divorce
homosexual practices
polygamy (coming up soon)
surrogate mothers
abortion
euthanasia

Not in order of importance.

If we change the meaning of marriage, marriage will have no meaning.

Hate to sound old-fashioned but the primary reason for marriage is to procreate. Two persons of the same sex cannot procreate. And for a stable society in which to raise our children. Stability is lost if everyone just does whatever they want.

Gee. Imagine all the intellectual things I could have said if I weren’t so sleepy! It’s 1:15 a.m. over here.

Bon Nuit
Keep searching till you find-maybe you could read Pope John Paul’s encyclical “Humanae Vitae”. It’s beautiful.

P.S. Someone’s footnote says something to the effect: Some say America has a problem because it is not tolerant - America has a problem because it IS tolerant.
(Sorry I can’t remember who; love it).

Verify in Christ,

I think that you’ve been given some good answers here, and I would add only the following:

I agree that we have a government and that the US Constitution is, or should be, the fundamental document governing our political system. I would point out, however, that he Supreme Court decision is not at all grounded in the Constitution and that the Founding Father’s are rolling over and groaning in their graves. You might find some backing for my assertion by reading the dessenting opinions rendered by the minority Justices in the case. I would also refer you to the Constitution itself and encourage you to read it. I doubt that you will come to the conclusion that the Constitution was followed. The Court makes mistakes and sometimes over steps its bounds. Roe vs Wade and the Dred Scott decisions quickly come to mind.

God bless.

:tsktsk::banghead::hmmm: :tsktsk::banghead::hmmm:
In the RCIA class I was teaching, the student asked, why is homosexual marriage any of our business? My co-teacher responded, ‘‘The cardinals and bishops disagree on the subject. When the synod convenes, there will be changes.’’

Really?

The law of the land will be determined by a democratic process.

Why you would want to see the law of the land sanction and hold up that which you believe is “immoral” is perplexing.

If you are coming into the Church you will be considered one of the “laity”. That is, neither religious, nor under holy Orders.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes Lumen Gentium:

Paragraph 909

“Moreover, by uniting their forces let the laity so remedy the institutions and conditions of the world when the latter are an inducement to sin, that these may be conformed to the norms of justice, favoring rather than hindering the practice of virtue. By so doing they will impregnate culture and human works with a moral value.

So, our ‘job’ as it were, is to promote virtue (not sin) and bring moral attitudes to the world.

Good post. :slight_smile:

Yes. This ‘job’ is one that I’m honored to do.

Well, to be Catholic means submiting oneself to the teaching of Christ’s Church, even if one doesn’t understand it, because Christ promised that his Churcj would teach true doctrine. And the Church teaches that there is no such thing as “gay marriage”, because by definition marriage can exist only between a man and a woman. This is not merely a truth of divine revelation, or of the Moral Law, but is also a truth of Natural Law, in the same way as sodium chloride can only exist with a sodium atom and a chlorine atom. And all truth has its origin in God, who is Truth itself.

Verify, my understanding of the situation and why your support for gay marriage could prevent you from entering the Church is this:

Even though you don’t agree with the behavior, you support the promotion of a lifestyle that is inherently sinful and destructive both physically and spiritually. This falls under the category of “Scandal.”

From CCC #2284-87 (linked above):

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."86 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.87

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."88 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,89 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"90

Because Scandal is sinful and grave matter, it more than likely places you in a state of mortal sin. A baptized person in a state of mortal sin cannot receive any of the Sacraments except Reconciliation and/or Extreme Unction (last rites/anointing of the sick).

Depending on your particular attitude, you may be barring yourself from those Sacraments as well. You do this by not being willing to fully repent of your sins. A confession is made invalid by intentional failure to disclose sin, or by lack of genuine desire to repent. If you have no intention or desire to stop the sinful behavior, you cannot receive the sacramental grace offered. Without this grace, you remain in a state of mortal sin. While in a state of mortal sin, you cannot receive communion.

Another example of this would be divorced and remarried Catholics who have not had their first marriages annulled by the Church. They are barred from the Sacraments because they are living in a state of perpetual sin. They may be able to return to the Sacraments by changing their living situation and/or abstaining from physical intimacy, but a change must be made. Otherwise, every confession they make would be invalid because of their perpetual sin. If they intentionally don’t confess these sins, it is invalid, and if they confess with no desire to change, it is invalid. An invalid confession means they remain in a state of mortal sin. A state of mortal sin means they cannot receive communion (doing so would actually place them in greater peril).

When I was first returning to the RCC, I struggled with this, too. The US Constitution allows for certain freedoms, and while I had come to the point of believing the actions to be immoral, I had trouble reconciling that with the state enforcing such a restriction, particularly if the Constitution did mandate it with our modern understanding of homosexuality and the fact that there didn’t seem to be any obvious harm or abuse that could be understood and explained to non-Christians outside of the Bible (I’ve since rethought this). Where do you draw the line between Christian values in law and religious freedom?

I found guidance in John 6. Many disciples couldn’t accept Jesus’ teaching on the Eucharist. They called it a hard teaching and abandoned him. Jesus turned to the twelve, and they seemed to find the teaching just as hard, but recognized that Jesus had the words of eternal life. So it is with the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit and was left the interpretation of Scriptures and Tradition. I had trouble accepting this teaching at first with human reasoning (such as my understanding was at the time), but I trusted in the Spirit and the Church, even so. Accepting that allowed my own understanding and reason to grow over time.

I am not aware of any rule that would forbid you from becoming Catholic.

This issue gets confused. It is not about ‘Gay marriage’ or about the constitution, or about rights. It is instead about protecting marriage.

Marriage is a responsibility, not a right.

Very few gay or queer folks actually want to get married and many do not want a heterosexual stamp of approval anyway.

A few gay activists seized on the issue and it turned into a huge debate. The key cases were about recovering money from a deceased love-one, and by proving that one was ‘married’ the money could be claimed. Hence the need for gay marriage, Then it became a way to achieve social acceptance for gays by appealing to the ‘rights’ issue. People got all caught up in that. But marriage is a contract, a responsibility, not a right.

I once asked a gay activist if having all the same legal standing through a civil union was enough, he said ‘No, it is about achieving social acceptance’. So by their own words it is not about rights. It is a political aim of a very small minority of minorities. The appeal to rights is a legal manipulation. Our same supreme court ‘discovered’ the constitutional right to privacy that allowed abortion. Now we have the right to gay marriage. They are all confused.

Please don’t fall into the trap of thinking this has anything to do with you becoming Catholic or anything like that.

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