A gun to your head

What do you think about this guy’s perspective on things?

youtube.com/watch?v=EGTG8-XkUoQ

One way of looking at is to think about what would have happened if Peter had not denied Jesus, but had declared his fidelity instead. We would likely have had a different first Pope! In the end, those denials served a higher purpose.

first noting that the Cassie Bernall martyr story probably isn’t true… .en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall and cited sources.

from the youtube link:

A gun is put to my head and I’m asked if I believe in God.
If I answer dishonestly, and say that I don’t believe in God, am I really denouncing my faith? In this video I talk about that question using a scenario based on the tragic Columbine High School shooting.

I think he’s right. if some deranged lunatic put a gun to my head under those circumstances, I’d say whatever I thought he wanted to hear without the least worry about my soul. the nut doesn’t have a right to ask that question or be entitled to the truth anyway.

on the other hand, the hypothetical is interesting, if asked about the whereabouts of potential victims, I’d tell the most plausible story to mislead him somewhere else. same as above, no right to the truth. shades of the Anne Frank question.

F/

I would like to say that I would not deny Christ, but I don’t know. That being said, I think that it would be wrong to deny Jesus because somebody had a gun to my head. That would be no different than denying Christ before any of the Roman magistrates during the early Church, and would, I think, be a sin. Now, you can argue for duress being a mitigating circumstance, but I would probably be haunted by thoughts of “did I deny Christ?” if I didn’t say I believed in God. Plus, if a person holds a gun to my head, I have a 50/50 chance of survival, so the odds are the same either way. They’re going to be crazy, and thus unpredictable in their reaction, so it is not correct, I think, to assume that denying God would save your life. Just my two cents.

this was an issue in the early church after the persecution under Diocletian early 4th century. you might google “Donatist heresy” or check this wiki article on Donatism … en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatism

the more forgiving side won out in the end.

F/

I just don’t know…given the warning Jesus had about denying him. He didn’t say if you deny me before men, I will deny you before My Father, unless it’s a crazy person, then it doesn’t matter. But on the other hand, circumstances can lessen a persons responsibility.

I have no idea what I’d do. It’s easy to say I’d die for Christ right now in the peace of my own house…that’s exactly what Peter did. I guess I should just pray that my faith isn’t just in good times, but in persecution also.

Be Polite, Be Professional, But have a plan to kill everyone that you meet. – Marine General James “Mad Dog” Mattis

Just make sure you’re the one holding the gun. Don’t tolerate for a second the existence of someone within a safe distance from you * who might put you in that situation.

You give up your gun, and I can get you to give up everything else.

AND, Youtooob is a really good source for badness.

Just sayin.*

24Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it. 26For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

28Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ~ Douay Rheims

See also: (Matthew 10:37-39; Mark 8:34-38; Luke 9:23-27)

How can we know for sure? That Peter’s denial did not thwart God’s plan, we know for sure, but it is possible that his affirmation of fidelity would not have had a different effect. Therefore, we cannot say what was likely or not.

While God works through our wickedness, let us not also forget that he works through our goodness and fidelity as well.

I’ll be darned. Thanks for telling me that I was about to become a heretic!:eek:

Peter had cut off the ear of the high priest’s servant, and Jesus restored the ear. Peter was confronted as to whether or not he was the one with Jesus earlier, by, among others, a relative of the one who was attacked by Peter. In denying it, I’ve always assumed Peter to have been exercising a self-preservation reflex, basically. I guess I doubt they were asking him at that point out of mere curiosity given the history. I think they had it in for him, but I could be wrong.

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