A Jewish Friend Posted this, help me understand


#1

A Jewish friend of mine (she converted to Judaism) posted this picture of a conversation on her Facebook.

I don’t like to engage with others’ posts on Facebook because you never know who will come fight you for asking questions. I don’t believe it made a good case for lack of insurance coverage violating freedom of religion but I am curious about some beliefs.

Is there anyone who knows enough about Jewish beliefs that they could explain some of this? I do not know the type of Judiasm represented here.

My questions are concerning, If a Jewish mother is forbidden from making a medical choice to save her child which risks her own life?

Also, do you know anyone who considers birth control pills as part of their religion?

Is the attitude about the pill being ok, but barrier methods being forbidden prevalent?

Thank you in advance.


#2

I can’t comment on the Judaic part of this, but this seems to me a non-sequitur. Denying insurance coverage for birth control is not the same as outright banning birth control.

I also wonder what form of Judaism she follows. In my ignorant opinion, she sounds reformed.


#3

This is also my opinion, but I’m not Jewish either.
@meltzerboy ?


#4

I agree. My mind was going a mile a minute about all the ways that it didn’t make sense, but the beliefs peaked my curiousity.


#5

One of our very respected posters is Jewish. I once asked him if Judaism believed that for the first 40 days after conception, the product of conception is simply water. He affirmed that it is the Orthodox Jewish position.
I believe Jewish belief holds that ensoulment occurs at birth, not at conception. So, contra conceiving is not the termination of a unique life, complete with a soul given it by God as we see it in the RCC. I think in such decisions as to bioethics, the Jewish position is “tilted” in favor of the life of the living person.
I do believe I am correct in the above, and certainly welcome any more informed people, especially Jewish people, to correct me if I am wrong.

Edited to say, I don’t mean to infer that every Jewish person holds the above position. I believe that Jewish women believe that they retain a freedom of choice in perilous situations as one of your question indicates.


#6

Thank you! This would definitely make a huge difference in how one navigates life issues.


#7

Perhaps making the use of certain approved methods of birth control more difficult for poorer Jewish women is what the OP’s Jewish friend is getting at. Certain (limited) means of birth control are permitted while others are not: an Orthodox Jewish view, actually, not Reform. Reform Judaism in general allows birth control across the board according to the individual woman’s choice, but NOT abortion except in extenuating circumstances.


#8

[tongue in cheek]Catholics seem heavily invested in the subject[/tongue in cheek]

As with most things in Judaism, ask a question and you risk a library’s worth of argument but there are a couple of (highly simplified here) understandings to bear in mind.

The first is that, of the famous 613 ‘commandments’ (many of which don’t apply anyway there being no Temple), men have to do the ‘positives’ but women just have to avoid the negatives - in other words, it can be argued that the admonition to be fruitful really applies to males (though it isn’t taken to imply an obligation to have huge families), we females don’t have to unless we want to.

The other thing to bear in mind is that women are incapable of committing the ‘sin of Onan’ so the ‘pill’ avoids male ‘problems’.

Inevitably, it’s more complicated than that but it might give a bit of an insight into how a different religion ‘works’.


#9

:laughing: We do sound totally obsessed.

Thank you for your response. Everyone’s responses have really helped me get atleast a surface level understanding, which is no small matter considering the possible depth of the topic.

So the man must not commit the sin of Onan, which the woman by her biology cannot commit. Is the woman who uses the pill considered to be mercifully helping her man not commit that sin, or is their obedience to the law more individual?

Thank you all again.


#10

For context: I looked up the Krista, Chaotic Jewish’s page( where the picture my friend posted came from to see if I could find clues about her Judaism.

She is a twitter user who primarily posts majestic looking birds cussing about life, and enthusiaatic sports posts. Her description lists her as a "Winnipeg Jets hater for hire":laughing:
So no clues there, but she seems quirky and fun.


#11

Depends on the pill. The “morning after” pill creates a forced menstruation that spills everything (from the night before) out. So through it she does commit the sin of Onan. Science has overcome even the biological limits of sin! :wink:


#12

Nobody is being ‘disobedient’.


#13

She isn’t the originator.


#14

I have much to learn. Would it be incorrrect to frame following Jewish teaching in terms of obeying Gods’ law? (Probably yes because you wouldn’t say His name. :woman_facepalming: I’m so out of my depth here.)

I think I get what you are saying, neither spouse would be doing anything wrong according to the teachings of their faith.


#15

God’s name isn’t ‘God’ so I’m not fussy! :smile:

One could argue that Judaism isn’t so much a religion with laws as a religion of ‘Law’ and its interpretation.

Allowing for a lot of the inevitable “well, on the one hand, meanwhile on the other hand, while on quite another hand . . . .” inherent in Judaism, that’s the point, yes.


#16

How is she not since she swallows the pill? The man may not even know what she does in most cases of open free-of-attachments cases?


#17

The male produced the sperm, he did not spill it and that’s what matters. She did not produce it.


#18

She originated the sin of wasting it. As far as he is concerned he put it inside her.


#19

There’s little point in a “oh yes it is/oh no it isn’t” conversation so you’re on your own.


#20

Huh? Please explain. Who spilled the sperm in Onan’s case? He did. Who spills it in the case of the morning pill? The woman who takes it. Where are the nuances in this situation invoking the relative interpretation you invoke?


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