A muslim "friend"


#1

I have a Muslim co worker; she is very nice. We decided to have dinner one day. Me and my husband went for dinner and I must say it was very interesting. My husband was not mush offended as I was; but he wasn’t paying close attention to what he was saying. Her husband “Muhammad” was basically trying to convert us. I felt like a caged animal. He went on and on about how Islam was the true religion and how the bible was mishandled and is full of mistakes.
I tried my best to stick up for what I believe but I am afraid I failed. I didn’t know how to properly say what I wanted and I sounded like a buffoon.
The trinity was a big deal and it was under his constant scrutiny. OK. Here is the whole deal of my post.
My DH is “full of manners” and invited them over for dinner. Oh boy. We have not set a date yet.
I want to be better prepared for this “next round” can someone help me.


#2

Well, you can either get a bunch of apologetics books and start reading, or you can set the ground rules at the beginning of the evening and announce that religion will not be a topic of the evening.

If you want to go the apologetics route, I suggest Beginning Apologetics-- a series of about 6 short workbooks. None are geared towards Muslims, but there are some geared towards JWs and Mormons delaing with the trinity.


#3

LOL this is so typical of a Muslim guy to do this… :smiley:

Anyway, I’ll tell you what I can for now but hopefully I can add more later. Believe me, I’ve been there!

Keep in mind, the things this guy brings up will be the same typical points all other Muslims use when they go through their little spiel about the errors of Christianity. None of it will be original - it will all be stuff he heard from either his imams or from Islamist propaganda material, and he won’t know the substance behind anything that he’s saying, either… it will be a lot of blind assertions without the knowledge to back them up.

The most important thing you can remember is that like with all heavily indoctrinated cult members, this guy does not care whether or not he is actually correct about what he says. As long as he thinks what he says can lure new converts to Islam, he will say it even if HE knows it is false. By his reasoning, it would be justified as gaining converts is more important to them than being truthful. So bottom line, do not be frustrated even if you have successfully rebutted every claim of his all night, provided all the evidence for what you believe, and even though he has no reasonable reply he still persists. Talking to guys like this is just like talking to a brick wall.

So bottom line, if you want to know how to better handle the individual “arguments” he’s making against Christianity, the best thing to do is just look at the threads started by Muslims here and the anti-christian materials on any Muslim propaganda site. The stuff he says will be the same arguments as these, almost verbatim. Yet, do not think that successfully countering his questions will cause him to reflect upon his own flawed reasoning in any way… being a Muslim he will still continue to live in the ideological bubble he has decided to isolate himself in. I have found in my experience, though, that dismantling the Mohammedans’ arguments in person will serve at least one purpose… they will eventually realize that you are not the typical “Christian” that they were told knew nothing about their faith and was so easy to manipulate with a bunch of third rate cookie-cutter apologetics. Seeing this, they will usually give up with YOU and move on to other, more gullible targets. :wink:


#4

Hi Willma,

I’m afraid, you’re in trouble.

(Edited) Your going to need a more than a few days to brush up on Apologetics to combat their rhetoric. You’re going to need a lot of history; History of Christianity, and history of Islam, to understand where we are today.

No doubt the Trinity came up because your muslim friend knows christians are weak in explaining this doctrine. (It’s one God in three beings. Not one God in three human beings.) But even Jesus predicted that the world would not understand the Holy Spirit (John 14:17). The Trinity is way out of their league. Forget about it.

Muslims will argue that the bible is corrupt; But strangely, there is no evidence for this.

Muslims will argue that their’s is a religion of peace. Once again, no evidence.

The fact that you are your and muslim friends can get together peacefully and have an intelligent discussion is because you are living in a non-Islamic country. But unfortunately, it’s politically incorrect to bring that discussion to the table.

Qur’an 4:157 specifically denies the crucifixion. (Edited) There is plenty of historic, scientific, and biblical evidence to confirm the crucifixion. It just goes to show how ignorant they can be.

If I was you, I would either decide to talk about Christianity, or Islam. But not both! You have to decide up front what to discuss.

If you want to find common ground between muslims and christians, talk about Mary! (I hope you’re catholic.) In particular, talk about Our Lady of Fatima. That should get their attention. (Fatima is also an Islamic name.) But if you’re not Catholic, then you’re in double-trouble.


#5

I know this is an aside, but God is not three beings… God is one being in three persons.

In any case, the book Theology and Sanity by Frank Sheed describes this the best out of any material I have seen so far. For those who want to learn more about the nature of the Trinity in a clear and understandable fashion, this is your best bet.

P.S. I know what you mean, though… Muslims do tend to assume it must be three “human beings”… :smiley:


#6

Muslims love to talk about religion. The reason for this is Muslims take their religion more seriously than most Christians do.

I spent 17 months in Morocco and 11 in Iraq. The Muslims want to discuss Christianity and Islam. Naturally, they are happy to defend Islam. It’s sad that so many Christians are either unable or unwilling to do the same for Christianity.

Personally, I am always ready to discuss politics with anyone. I don’t get offended when someone doesn’t agree with me. I think that most Muslims don’t expect you do agree with everything that they believe. They are looking for common ground.

Don’t be so insecure. Talk to these people.


#7

:blush: Oh dear… I just proved my point that we (at least me) are weak in explaining the Trinity. :o

Yes, you’re right. But the problem I find is that they don’t listen.


#8

Hi

Eversince Paul inducted the creed of Trinity to mess up things for the Christians, they won’t be able to discuss religious things with confidence with Muslims. Paul weakened the Christianity. This is my opinion, others could differe with that, no compulsion.

Thanks

Adam did make a mistake, but since he repented and was forgiven by GodAllahYHWH so it cannot be called a sin.


#9

I don’t know what it is with Muslims and these (Edited) “Paul invented…” conspiracy theories. Whatever the case, please realize you’re wasting your time with them on this site because nobody here is gullible enough to fall for that. If you want to continue to waste your time with this, fine - I have already done all I can to try and spare you the needless trouble.


#10

Hi Willma,

to enter such discussions, you must know both religions well. If you don’t, the best answer to give is " to you your religion, to me mine"; that’s a sentence in his quran. So just say you believe in your religion and not interested in any discussion. Cut is at this point and don’t let them insist on talking about it.

Believe me, these people lack any deep theological argument you might give. all they talk about is the beauty of teh quran, corruption of the Holy Bible, the “illogical” Trinity, ecc. It is only when you confront them using their books that they feel unable to answer you.

Last advice, when they ask you about the Trinity, ask them if they can explain the nature of God. Since they can’t, well you know what i mean. The Trinity can be explained as much as we can in human terms, but will never be explained adequatly. When Muslims insist, it is as if they can explain the nature of God when in fact they keep repeating God is one but if you ask them One what? no answer yet they insist the Trinity is wrong.

Things are not difficult believe me…been there done that a thousand time and they end up embarrassed all the time that’s because i understand the level they start with and the maximum of theological understranding they can reach. If you don’t just cut it short.


#11

Hi

I think you have not understood the correct meaning of the verse . It means we don’t harm each other, and try our best to convince one another of the truth with rational and reasonable arguments and no coercive methods should be used, as there is no compulsion in religion.

That should be the right approach of Willma and her friend. It is not essential that one should give an answer spontaneously, one could say that I don’t know the answer, I will research on it and we would discuss it again. This way one increases one’s knowledge and confidence in one’s own religion/faith/denomination.

Good luck to Wilma and her friend. May GodAllahYHWH guide you both on the right path, whichever it is and wherever it is.

Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Buddha/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.


#12

It’s possible that what seemed like rudeness and aggression to you may have actually been an honest attempt to find out how Christians think and to see if they can defend their faith.

Is your husband not religious? Does he not want to take part in the discussion? The Moslem man will probably discount any argument coming from a woman, no matter how convincing it is. Especially if it is coming from a married woman whilst her husband is sitting there silently.

IMO the best course would be to get a copy of a short Catholic tract summarising catholic beliefs, and another one summarising the errors of about Islam and refutations of the Moslem arguments about Christianity, and you and your husband say to him that you want to have a pleasant meal without disputation about religion, and give him the tracts and suggest he read them and if he has any questions about them to ask them on CAF. (Give him the address.) You are the hosts, so you make the rules.


#13

Hi

There is no harm in giving some tracts, but the Muslim would also do the same and also provide a website and there is no harm in making a research for the Truth. The atmosphere must remain friendly and loving.

On should remain steadfast on one’s faith yet one should keep a window or door open for the Truht , it may come anywhere from, and then one should not hesitate in accepting it. This is my approach.

Good luck to Wilma and her friend. May GodAllahYHWH guide you both on the right path, whichever it is and wherever it is.
Thanks


#14

I am so glad you are here looking for the truth Paarsurrey. I pray that you will find it.:wink:

I still think the best option would be to avoid discussion of religion until a time when you are in a position to defend catholocism confidently and accurately as the second poster suggested.


#15

Well in Islam they’re only allowed to have ‘close friends’ with non-Moslems for the purposes of conversion. So the reason they’re closely engaging you is strictly for this. Knowing this will let you realise how genuine they are in seeing you - once they realise they can’t convert you, you’re no longer going to be on such close terms.


#16

The Trinity is fact, before Paul was converted. He didn’t invent it.


#17

Are you sure that’s true? Maybe a Muslim here could confirm whether that is true?


#18

Theological discussions cannot be carried among any 2 persons; these conversations need education in religion, history, and a rational, logical mind. Discussing theology with someone who has nothing on his mind except “the Bible is corrupt” is ridiculous; it’s a waste of time to drag oneself to this level of ignorance. so yes it is good to try to explain things, but this does not work with all people, specially those who insist you adore 3 gods no matter what, or who insist the Trinity is wrong because it’s “difficult”, or that St. Peter or Paul “plotted” against Jesus’ message. These ridiculous claims by most Muslims make it futile to discuss with them anything because it’s like teaching geometry to a kid. Discussions with such people drags the conversations to low levels because you can’t talk logic and history with someone who lacks both. So when i meet such people who think they can “convince” me because Islam is “easier”, i listen to their arguments first. If the arguments are so naive or stupid (Paul’s “plot”, corruption, Jesus died in Honolulu, someone else was crucified" i know it’s be futile cuz we’re not on the same theological or even rational level.

However, if the person infront of me is educated, and uses his brain to rationalize and give logical arguments, then i’ll discuss with him, but how rare are these people.


#19

To whom are you responding?


#20

Actually, I’ll just assume you were responding to what I wrote about Moslems and non-Moslem friends. If not, ignore this :wink:

Koran
5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya’ to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya’, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).

Really the only time they are supposed to is in order to get new converts, or out of necessity.

It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=69876&ln=eng

It is permissible for you to let your aunt stay with you so that you can call her to Islam and encourage her with wisdom and beautiful preaching, If she sees you and your good attitude and kind treatment, that may be a means of opening her heart to this great religion. Attitude and actions may often be more eloquent than words and preaching. So strive hard to do that, and if Allaah guides her at your hands, that will be better for you than this world and everything in it.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=70219&ln=eng

Question :
In the Quraan, it says that we can not take the Kuffaar as awliyaa, but what does that mean? I mean, to what degree? Can we do business with them still? If I’m at school, can we play basketball with them? Can we talk to them about basketball and stuff? Can we hang out with them as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves? The reason I ask is because someone I know does hang out with them in this way and it doesn’t affect his beliefs, but I still tell him, “Why don’t you hang out with the muslims instead?” He says that most or many of the Muslims drink and take drugs where they hang out and they have girlfriends and he’s afraid that the sins of the Muslims will lure him, yet he’s sure that the Kufr of the Kaafirs will not lure him because that’s something that isn’t attractive to him. So is hanging out with them, playing sports with them, and talking with them about sports considered as “taking them as awliyaa instead of the believers” keeping in mind that he is doing that for his own eemaan?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=59879&ln=eng

Here’s a site that sincerely believes all non-Muslims are condemned, so friendship requires the invitation to Islam.
Since you have feelings of concern for your friends, why don’t you give them Da’awah (invitation) to Islam. It is stated in the Hadith that ‘A true friend is he who invites his friend to the straight path, i.e. towards Islam, good deeds, charity, etc.’ Make lots of du’aa for your non-Muslim friends that Allah grant them the wealth of Imaan and that they realise the truth from falsehood.
islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12410
Again the issue of being freinds for the purposes of conversion arises…
" Islam is the religion of tolerance, ease and flexibility, and at the same time, it is the religion of justice. Hospitality is a part of Islaamic good manners, but if the guest is a disbeliever, then the ruling differs according to the different intention of the host and the different types of hospitality he offers him. If his intention is legitimate, based upon his desire to create harmony between himself and the disbeliever, so that he may call him to Islaam and save him from kufr and misguidance, then his intention is honourable."
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0020111_1.htm

You’re not even considered a ‘brother’ of a Muslim
"Question: Does not brotherhood extend to all of mankind because it is established that Aadam was the forefather of everyone?
Response: This is not so. There is no doubt that everyone is from the offspring of Aadam but we do not say, “This is my brother,” when referring to a disbeliever meaning by that within the brotherhood of man. We can only refer to him as brother when there is a relationship by descent or lineage.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000920_5.htm


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.