A place to call "Home"


#1

Some may remember me from before, it has been some time since i've been on here. However, I would just like to express some thoughts and challenges that I have and pray that perhaps some can be conquered.

For 23 years I have called the LDS church home. It's the religion of my childhood and the religion that I currently am baptized in. However, when I think of home, i think of love and more recently than ever I've realized something, I feel no love. The LDS church is a social network, where friends can be made without even trying, I feel that this has masked my vision and deterred me from feeling loved. I felt important rather than loved. I felt wanted rather than needed. Numbers.....it is the back bone of the LDS church. Every general conference or stake conference you hear about numbers. How they've grown and how important numbers are. No one thinks about the person. Our network is a mask, a mask for those who only want to feel important. I'm tired of wearing the mask and i'm tired of calling a place home, when it feels more like a prison.

I love the LDS people. I am not here to bash on them or to belittle our religion. I am simply here to try and find a home. A place where I can feel loved by Christ and love Him back. If it is not the LDS church that I can call home then its time for me to look elsewhere. I am currently taking a Christian History class at BYU and has led me to the roots of Christianity. I'll start with Christ and the apostles, then I'll go from there. If you know of any documents that you feel would benefit me on my journey I would greatly appreciate it. I know this is more of a babble than anything else but I just felt like someone here could help me. God bless everyone.


#2

Thanks for posting. I’ll pray for you to find a church home, regardless of denomination.

In the mean time, hang out here more often. We’re a good bunch. :thumbsup:


#3

If you are interested in the history of Christianity, there are several members on this site who will gladly answer your questions. Additionally, Catholic.com has many resources about the history of Catholicism and Christianity in general.

It is sad that your religion feels like a prison to you, and I hope you don't take offense to this next statement, but perhaps it is God calling you away from a false religion.

I understand this statement may be hard to hear, because I understand the ties that come with the religion you've been in since birth; but you are posting on a Catholic forum, so I hope you will forgive the brashness of the statement.

God speaks to us. Much of the time we are unwilling to hear Him. Perhaps your feelings of being trapped are your soul's way of helping God get your attention. Since you are posting here I assume you've considered Catholicism before. I'm curious. In light of these feelings have you looked into what we believe any further and sought knowledge about us? If you are interested, everyone here would be very happy to discuss it with you.

Regardless of if you are leaning this way, everyone here is happy to have you and to talk to you about God, Jesus and religion in general. I will pray that God helps you through this trouble.


#4

I understand your issue that you are faced with. I have felt that greatly about Mormons, since my father was raised Mormon he has told me a lot of similar things like this. I am a convert to Catholicism and I truly feel at home, just something about it makes me feel welcome and loved and appreciated. A very inspiration book that I read was St. Therese's autobiography, my main inspiration came from praying the Rosary and I guess you could say that Mary was leading me to her Son Jesus more and more every time I prayed. I suggest you read the autobiography of St. Therese, and maybe try praying the Rosary. I know you are Mormon but I wasn't Catholic when I started and I feel that it greatly influenced my situation.

God Bless you!:signofcross:


#5

QUOTE=xCelticx;9817800
. However, when I think of home, i think of love and more recently than ever I've realized something, I feel no love.

Have you been to Adoration? I feel love there- the strongest I have ever felt it in my life.

Are you at BYU or in Az? RICA is starting up right now in the Catholic churches in the Phoenix area. NO pressure, and you can get an idea what the Catholic church has to offer.


#6

Since you are studying early Christianity, There is a book you might enjoy called "Four Witnesses". These are early Church Fathers who learned their faith either directly from the Apostles themselves or from someone who "sat at an apostle's knee". It's an easy read and well worth it.

If you are interested in the "Love" aspect of the Church, two great saints that you might find interesting are St Francis of Assisi and St Therese of Lisieux - Both exhibited great Love in small ways.

Hope these help.

Peace
James


#7

If you have cable or satellite, I highly recommend the program “The Journey Home,” on EWTN. The host interviews converts or reverts in depth (the show is an hour long), and hearing about their journey toward becoming a Catholic, or embracing their faith, is fascinating to me. It gives me such faith in the Holy Spirit, for some of these people would have had no reason to approach the Catholic Church (some were actually Protestant ministers before conversion!). Then, as a previous poster suggested, find a church with a 24/7 adoration chapel, and go put yourself in the presence of Jesus. To me, adoration is like a laser beam from God. I rarely hear a voice, but I always feel His touch to my heart.

Your journey home is just beginning. You’re added to my prayers.

:gopray2::grouphug:


#8

Perhaps reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church will help.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

We were there at the beginning so we know what we are talking about. We aren't perfect but we contain the fullness of Truth and all the Sacraments necessary for salvatioin.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


#9

I'm currently still at BYU, I get my degree after this semester. pretty excited about it.

I'm currently reading the book The Story of Christian History by Justo L. Gonzalez. I just got back from my religion class and we discussed some things. Mainly, the Hellenistic influence in the early church and and the combination of scripture and philosophy. Which, if any of you are ex-mormons would know that "philosophy of man mingled with scripture" is a huge red flag for us. But I don't know, what do you guys think about it? for instance, we talked about the Athanasian Creed and how it took so long for Christians to really put into words the nature of God, or their relationship with him. This really didn't settle with me because there might be an older document that describes the Trinity but my instructor focuses on how argumental the early church was and how no one agreed on doctrine for many centuries. Thoughts?


#10

Oh and JRKH, I’ma order that book sometime next week when i get my pay check. I read the synopsis and it seems very interesting. Thank you for the suggestion


#11

[quote="xCelticx, post:9, topic:299768"]
I'm currently still at BYU, I get my degree after this semester. pretty excited about it.

I'm currently reading the book The Story of Christian History by Justo L. Gonzalez. I just got back from my religion class and we discussed some things. Mainly, the Hellenistic influence in the early church and and the combination of scripture and philosophy. Which, if any of you are ex-mormons would know that "philosophy of man mingled with scripture" is a huge red flag for us. But I don't know, what do you guys think about it? for instance, we talked about the Athanasian Creed and how it took so long for Christians to really put into words the nature of God, or their relationship with him. This really didn't settle with me because there might be an older document that describes the Trinity but my instructor focuses on how argumental the early church was and how no one agreed on doctrine for many centuries. Thoughts?

[/quote]

Can't speak much to the matter of philosophy and scripture....

As to the comment, "no one agreed on doctrine for many centuries"...What is meant my "no one agreed" and "doctrine"? Certainly the belief in Jesus as Lord was accepted, the Real presence in the Eucharist was accepted, the need for baptism was accepted, as well as other things.

Of course, human nature and curiosity raised questions and asked for explanation that had not been previously defined and certainly these things were discussed and debated...sometimes over many many years.

But let's remember to that, in so far as sorting out such things the early Church was dealing with a couple of pretty hefty limitations as compared to us today. First was the fact that communication occurred at the pace of a walk. It took quite a while for ideas, letters and such to get around. Second was the fact that Christianity was not legal in the empire and periodically there would be persecutions. That kinda makes it hard to call everybody together for a pow-wow....

[quote="xCelticx, post:10, topic:299768"]
Oh and JRKH, I'ma order that book sometime next week when i get my pay check. I read the synopsis and it seems very interesting. Thank you for the suggestion

[/quote]

I thoroughly enjoyed it. Hope you will too.

Peace
James


#12

I won't try and act like I know what my teacher was trying to say when he told us "no one agreed on doctrine for many centuries". But he did believe that the early church fathers, i.e the apostles, believed in the godhead and not the trinity. that it wasn't till the Nicene Creed that the Trinity was "born" i haven't done much research on the subject but could you provide some early church documents that supports either side? from Ignatius or even Peter himself.


#13

[quote="xCelticx, post:12, topic:299768"]
I won't try and act like I know what my teacher was trying to say when he told us "no one agreed on doctrine for many centuries". But he did believe that the early church fathers, i.e the apostles, believed in the godhead and not the trinity. that it wasn't till the Nicene Creed that the Trinity was "born" i haven't done much research on the subject but could you provide some early church documents that supports either side? from Ignatius or even Peter himself.

[/quote]

Sorry,but your teacher is dead wrong. Disputing and disagreeing over doctrines does not negate the fact orthodoxy existed. Gnostics were around when Paul wrote his epistles. Are we to assume since the Gnostics taught radically different, the early church was merely inventing doctrines? No! The ECF's believed in the Trinity and over the centuries were more capable of explaining it more clearly. The Trinity was NOT born with the Creed.


#14

[quote="xCelticx, post:12, topic:299768"]
I won't try and act like I know what my teacher was trying to say when he told us "no one agreed on doctrine for many centuries".

[/quote]

No problem...My comment was intended to demonstrate how much "air" there was in his statement.

But he did believe that the early church fathers, i.e the apostles, believed in the godhead and not the trinity. that it wasn't till the Nicene Creed that the Trinity was "born" i haven't done much research on the subject but could you provide some early church documents that supports either side? from Ignatius or even Peter himself.

I think that you might THIS SITE helpful for this question as well as some others.

Look down the left and side and you'll find "Trinity" listed. Click on the sub headings and it will give you references to Scripture and to Early Church Fathers.

I believe that you will find, the more you study on this, that it is harder and harder to find that place where, according to Mormon belief, the Church went off the rails into complete apostasy. The reason of course is because the Church never did...

Peace
James


#15

[quote="xCelticx, post:1, topic:299768"]
Some may remember me from before, it has been some time since i've been on here. However, I would just like to express some thoughts and challenges that I have and pray that perhaps some can be conquered.

For 23 years I have called the LDS church home. It's the religion of my childhood and the religion that I currently am baptized in. However, when I think of home, i think of love and more recently than ever I've realized something, I feel no love. The LDS church is a social network, where friends can be made without even trying, I feel that this has masked my vision and deterred me from feeling loved. I felt important rather than loved. I felt wanted rather than needed. Numbers.....it is the back bone of the LDS church. Every general conference or stake conference you hear about numbers. How they've grown and how important numbers are. No one thinks about the person. Our network is a mask, a mask for those who only want to feel important. I'm tired of wearing the mask and i'm tired of calling a place home, when it feels more like a prison.

I love the LDS people. I am not here to bash on them or to belittle our religion. I am simply here to try and find a home. A place where I can feel loved by Christ and love Him back. If it is not the LDS church that I can call home then its time for me to look elsewhere. I am currently taking a Christian History class at BYU and has led me to the roots of Christianity. I'll start with Christ and the apostles, then I'll go from there. If you know of any documents that you feel would benefit me on my journey I would greatly appreciate it. I know this is more of a babble than anything else but I just felt like someone here could help me. God bless everyone.

[/quote]

XCelticX-

First, welcome to this website. I agree that the Lord is leading and guiding you. There are many great resources here, including the forum(s), but also the landing page has many audio and written tracts that you can go through understand more about the Catholic faith, one piece at a time.

EWTN is also a terrific website. On the landing page, select the documents and audio library. Here you can search and find information on almost anything that you are looking for.

Strong Recommendation: visit a local Catholic church near you and speak to the Priest. They will be most welcoming and will have suggestions on how you can learn more about the Catholic church in your local community. RCIA "Classes" (Rite for Christian Initiation for Adults) have likely just started. The classes meet weekly and discuss a different subject(s) on the faith each week. RCIA is the process in which adults are brought into the Catholic church but you can also attend just to learn as well. There is no pressure to join the church but if you decided to, you would join the church at the Easter Vigil (day before Easter). RCIA an important way for you to learn more about the church and get many questions answered. To be clear, the RCIA classes basically start now and run to Easter. Then restart in Fall 2013.

Praying for you.

Pork (me) n Pie (my sweet wife)


#16

[quote="JRKH, post:14, topic:299768"]
No problem...My comment was intended to demonstrate how much "air" there was in his statement.

I think that you might THIS SITE helpful for this question as well as some others.

Look down the left and side and you'll find "Trinity" listed. Click on the sub headings and it will give you references to Scripture and to Early Church Fathers.

I believe that you will find, the more you study on this, that it is harder and harder to find that place where, according to Mormon belief, the Church went off the rails into complete apostasy. The reason of course is because the Church never did...

Peace
James

[/quote]

This site was very helpful to show me the evidence of the Trinity but growing up with the Godhead i can interpret these scriptures for my faith too. Logically speaking, when we say, "Christ is the Son of God" how can there be a Son without a Father? see what I mean. I don't know, its just new to me so thats why i feel its strange but I've read some analogies and other stories that help me to grasp my head around it. I'll be referencing this site often while on my search. I thank you for your help. God bless


#17

[quote="Porknpie, post:15, topic:299768"]
XCelticX-

First, welcome to this website. I agree that the Lord is leading and guiding you. There are many great resources here, including the forum(s), but also the landing page has many audio and written tracts that you can go through understand more about the Catholic faith, one piece at a time.

EWTN is also a terrific website. On the landing page, select the documents and audio library. Here you can search and find information on almost anything that you are looking for.

Strong Recommendation: visit a local Catholic church near you and speak to the Priest. They will be most welcoming and will have suggestions on how you can learn more about the Catholic church in your local community. RCIA "Classes" (Rite for Christian Initiation for Adults) have likely just started. The classes meet weekly and discuss a different subject(s) on the faith each week. RCIA is the process in which adults are brought into the Catholic church but you can also attend just to learn as well. There is no pressure to join the church but if you decided to, you would join the church at the Easter Vigil (day before Easter). RCIA an important way for you to learn more about the church and get many questions answered. To be clear, the RCIA classes basically start now and run to Easter. Then restart in Fall 2013.

Praying for you.

Pork (me) n Pie (my sweet wife)

[/quote]

I can't really visit a catholic parish at this time, with school and all. But by the new year ill be out of BYU and back in Arizona so I can start then. but question. Why are we only allowed to be baptized during the Easter Virgil? I served a mission for the LDS church so we were taught to baptize right away so they could receive the "blessings" and so on. I just find it strange. no disrespect.


#18

[quote="xCelticx, post:16, topic:299768"]
This site was very helpful to show me the evidence of the Trinity but growing up with the Godhead i can interpret these scriptures for my faith too. Logically speaking, when we say, "Christ is the Son of God" how can there be a Son without a Father? see what I mean. I don't know, its just new to me so thats why i feel its strange but I've read some analogies and other stories that help me to grasp my head around it. I'll be referencing this site often while on my search. I thank you for your help. God bless

[/quote]

Glad that the site was helpful to you.

The matter of the Trinity IS a tricky matter - A mystery.
It may not entirely answer your questions but THIS SECTION from the Catechism might help you see how we understand it (not that we do entirely)...;).

So don't worry that it makes your head go...:whacky:

[quote="xCelticx, post:17, topic:299768"]
I can't really visit a catholic parish at this time, with school and all. But by the new year ill be out of BYU and back in Arizona so I can start then. but question. Why are we only allowed to be baptized during the Easter Virgil? I served a mission for the LDS church so we were taught to baptize right away so they could receive the "blessings" and so on. I just find it strange. no disrespect.

[/quote]

With regards to Baptism. Baptism can take place anytime.

The normal procedure for entering the Church is to go through RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) classes and these are timed to end just before Easter. Then at Easter, the most important feast on the Church calender, the converts are formally and fully welcomed into the Church. Those needing baptism are baptized, then all are confirmed and receive Holy Communion. It's a beautiful ceremony.

That said, if a person is sufficient reason, a person may be baptized at any other time. This is something that you can talk over with the priest, once you are back in Arizona.

Peace
James


#19

[quote="xCelticx, post:17, topic:299768"]
I can't really visit a catholic parish at this time, with school and all. But by the new year ill be out of BYU and back in Arizona so I can start then. but question. Why are we only allowed to be baptized during the Easter Virgil? I served a mission for the LDS church so we were taught to baptize right away so they could receive the "blessings" and so on. I just find it strange. no disrespect.

[/quote]

Hi XCelticX-

It is the norm for the Catholic church to bring adults into the church on the Easter Vigil Mass ("Holy Saturday"). Reason is - this is the first celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It wasn't just his death on the cross that is so important to us, it's both his death on the cross AND his resurrection. His death would mean nothing without his resurrection. The reason for the extended time for initiation is it gives adults time to learn & discern about the faith. Unlike Mormonism - from what I hear from others posting - the Catholic church really covers the essentials of the faith from A to Z during this time period.

Here are several RCIA references to read through.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/who-we-teach/rite-of-christian-initiation-of-adults/index.cfm

beginningcatholic.com/catholic-rcia-stages.html

catholic.com/tracts/how-to-become-a-catholic

God bless you.


#20

[quote="xCelticx, post:9, topic:299768"]

I'm currently reading the book The Story of Christian History by Justo L. Gonzalez. I just got back from my religion class and we discussed some things. Mainly, the Hellenistic influence in the early church and and the combination of scripture and philosophy. Which, if any of you are ex-mormons would know that "philosophy of man mingled with scripture" is a huge red flag for us. But I don't know, what do you guys think about it? for instance, we talked about the Athanasian Creed and how it took so long for Christians to really put into words the nature of God, or their relationship with him. This really didn't settle with me because there might be an older document that describes the Trinity but my instructor focuses on how argumental the early church was and how no one agreed on doctrine for many centuries. Thoughts?

[/quote]

As for the combination of scripture and philosophy it is nothing more than the combination of divine revelation and reason. Sacred Scripture contains revelation from God; knowledge that we could not otherwise ascertain. Philosophy seeks after truth using the tool of reason in order to find it. Truth is truth, regardless of the manner in which it is imparted. Philosophy can aid us in understanding and explaining those divinely revealed truths which are otherwise inexpressible. So Aquinas borrowed from Aristotle in arriving at "The Five Ways", the proofs for God's existence. The divine revelation that God is eternal and the Creator of all things is therefore supported by reason, as it well should be, for truth cannot conflict with truth.

I have never understood the Mormon aversion to "philosophy" other than it contradicts Mormon theology.

Just a caution. Classes on Christian history are very susceptible to bias. Thus, your professor focuses on arguments in the early Church as evidence of the Church's loss of authority. It is an attempt make the case that there was no agreement in the Church as far as doctrine was concerned; who is to say who was right? One position simply won out over the other and there you have apostasy; the Church being influenced by the philosophies of men, and so forth. This is absolute myth and is easily refuted by an honest reading of the early Church Fathers. Yet it is necessary in order to defend the Mormon position, inspite of the evidence against it.


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