A Question about Homosexuality


#1

I understand that the Catholic Church denounces same-sex marriage. But is homosexuality itself sinful (according to the church)? My sister is gay. She is also the nicest person I’ve ever known. She is very religious and was born and raised Catholic. I refuse to believe she would knowingly sin. When she first told me she was gay, I was shocked. But looking back, she always dressed, wore her hair, etc. like a boy. After reading this websites article about same-sex marriage, I was quite upset about some of the “facts” which were presented. First, the article claims to not be homophobic. This is the same article that labels gays as depressed, suicidal, drug users etc. The proof given for this claim is that these figures have remained stable despite increased “public acceptance.” Denouncing any human’s right to love and condemning same-sex marriage as evil… this is acceptance? I am Catholic and plan on remaining Catholic. However, I do not know what to believe with this one issue. Am I forced to choose between the Church’s teachings and my love for my sister?

Matt, 17 years old


#2

Matt,

The Church has said homosexuality is instrinsically disordered. However, this does not mean it is sinful. A person who is gay, yet does not act on her homosexual desires, has not sinned. It is when a person acts on those desires that a sin may occur.


#3

Thank you for this response. I posted this in the family forum as well and received responses that being gay itself is sinful. This is where the conflict occurred, as, I believe people are born gay (having gone through the whole ordeal with my sister). Are you sure absolutely sure this is the Church’s teaching?*

*Just wanted to check because of the mixed replies I’ve received


#4

put it simply: homosexual tendencies are not sinful but activity is


#5

It then follows that homosexual activity is sinful just as premarital sexual relations are sinful. Correct?

I feel that homosexuality has been singled out from fornication, adultery, lust, etc.


#6

[quote=SCV15]It then follows that homosexual activity is sinful just as premarital sexual relations are sinful. Correct?

I feel that homosexuality has been singled out from fornication, adultery, lust, etc.
[/quote]

Don’t mean to seem uncharitable. But the Lord tells us that homosexual acts are an abomination. Worse than fornication and adultery. We all have to live chastity according to our state of life.


#7

What do you mean by “being gay”? If you mean that your sister is attracted to women and not men, then this is not sinful. But if a person has that attraction and then also thinks that action between a woman and a woman (you know) is okay, then they are confused. Those actions are not okay. If your sister is involved in a “gay lifestyle” then there may be a problem, depending on what is implied by that phrase as she uses it. Gay marriage is not viewed as okay by the Church.

There is a good Catholic organization for people with these attractions, called Courage. Some other “Catholic” organizations are not so great, so watch out with that. Courage is fine.


#8

I don’t want to hurt anyones feelings. I’m noy casting any stones. Just trying to convey the truth.

Try reading the article from the link below.
catholic.com/library/homosexuality.asp


#9

[quote=abcdefg]put it simply: homosexual tendencies are not sinful but activity is
[/quote]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 **Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 ** Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **


#10

[quote=SCV15]Thank you for this response. I posted this in the family forum as well and received responses that being gay itself is sinful. This is where the conflict occurred, as, I believe people are born gay (having gone through the whole ordeal with my sister). Are you sure absolutely sure this is the Church’s teaching?*

*Just wanted to check because of the mixed replies I’ve received
[/quote]

Hi again, Matt.
Unfortunately, many people fail to distinguish between same-sex-attraction (SSA) and homosexual activity. Perhaps that’s because these days we tend to assume that anyone who labels herself “gay” has embraced a homosexual lifestyle and engages in homosexual relations.
This is not necessarily so. There are many SSAs who live happy and chaste lives because they are committed to living as Christ wants everyone to live.
Grace to you,
Paul


#11

[quote=SCV15]Am I forced to choose between the Church’s teachings and my love for my sister?

[/quote]

Its a shame the church has backed you into a corner like this.
No one should have to make such decisions. You are not alone. You or your sister might want to check out this group, who don’t practice the intolerance and discrimination regarding homosexuality, that the main stream Catholic church does.
dignityusa.org/


#12

I know this is a bit off subject, but could someone give me an actual Bible verse that opposes homosexuality? There’s someone who told me that it’s not in the Bible but I know it is; I just don’t know where.


#13

[quote=Hilly]Its a shame the church has backed you into a corner like this.
No one should have to make such decisions. You are not alone. You or your sister might want to check out this group, who don’t practice the intolerance and discrimination regarding homosexuality, that the main stream Catholic church does.

dignityusa.org/
[/quote]

Matt,
It is not the Church that has backed you into a corner, it is the secular culture that has backed you into a corner. During my conversion process I went thru the “non-negotiables” one by one. The Church’s stance held true on every one. And even if truth is hard, it is ultimately freeing, and truly loving.

There are some good posts here and on the other thread that explain that Truth very well. The dignity site is not in keeping with the Church. They promote moral relativism. That’s hurtful.

One of the posts in one of the threads mentioned the group Courage. They uphold the truth.

All sexual sins are grave matter; whether it’s SSA, pornography, or adultery. If someone says, well, I guess i’m just an adulterer-- there’s a reason why we don’t buy it. What I mean is that if your sister says: I am gay, she is defining herself by her sexual behavior, (which is not even her sexuality) rather than her entire integrated self of body, mind, and soul. I think Satan is thrilled that a group of people have thus self-defined themselves in this way.

This culture tries to reduce us all to our sexuality. period. The culture wants us to take the easiest way out, to make decisions based upon convenience, and to avoid anything that isn’t immediately gratifying.

Another way to put it is: The culture would like us to forget that our self-integration (body, mind, soul) is essential to making Right decisions. And our intellect and our soul is on the higher end of the hierarchy. The body needs to be tempered by the other two.

Have you or your sister ever read Pope John Paul’s On the Dignity and Vocation of Women (Mulieris Dignitatum (sp?))

There is much more to our sexuality than what we can do or not do with it. That is just how it’s expressed.

Peace.


#14

SCV15,


I recommend the following article:

**“Out of the Closet and into Chastity” **
By David Morrison (an ex-gay activist convert to Catholicism)
catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0001.html


#15

Hi Matt,

First of all I commend you for the love you have for your sister and no matter what your sister is you should always love her . From the scripture we see that God created Adam and Eve and therefore I do believe that this is the way God wanted it to be . I have heard some Christian broadcast where gay people had given their testimony where they said that they thought this is the way they were from birth , but through lots of love and care and prayer of the family and friends , they saw that it was possible to change , some even move on to getting married . I suggest that you will keep on showing lots of love for your sister, have an ear to listen to her, and do not waste the time in worrying or getting upset , use that time in praying to the Divine Mercy to help your sister in this situation . I am sure she is a nice person, I know a few myself and after all we are all God’s creatures and none of us have a right to judge others . Instead it is better to pray for each other so that we can all see the light in what God is asking for us during our stay on earth .
God bless


#16

[quote=itsjustdave1988]SCV15,

I recommend the following article:

**“Out of the Closet and into Chastity” **
By David Morrison (an ex-gay activist convert to Catholicism)
[catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0001.html](“http://catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0001.html”)
[/quote]

Yeah, he also wrote Beyond Gay and is the founder or director of Courage online. someone posted the link before but here it is again.

www.couragerc.org

Peace.


#17

SCV15,

I also recommend this article…

Changing Sexual Orientation
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101bite.asp


#18

This study shows homosexuality is indeed a psychological disorder which can be treated successfully …

Spitzer Study Published:
Evidence Found for Effectiveness of
Reorientation Therapy
By Roy Waller and Linda A. Nicolosi
narth.com/docs/evidencefound.html

Here’s an excerpt:

The results of a study conducted by Dr. Robert L. Spitzer have just been published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 32, No. 5, October 2003, pp. 403-417.

Spitzer’s findings challenge the widely-held assumption that a homosexual orientation is “who one is” – an intrinsic part of a person’s identity that can never be changed. The study has attracted particularly attention because its author, a prominent psychiatrist, is viewed as a historic champion of gay activism. Spitzer played a pivotal role in 1973 in removing homosexuality from the psychiatric manual of mental disorders. …

These results would seem to contradict the position statements of the major mental health organizations in the United States, which claim there is no scientific basis for believing psychotherapy effective in addressing same-sex attraction. …

… this study, Spitzer concludes, “clearly goes beyond anecdotal information and provides evidence that reparative therapy is sometimes successful.”

It seems to me that homosexuality is a true disorder, just as depression and alcoholism are, and instead of embracing such a disorder as “normal,” it ought to be called what it truly is so that treatment can be sought.


#19

Hi Matt,

You’ve received a lot of great responses here, and I don’t want to go on repeating what everyone else said. The reason I’m posting is because I was in a very similiar spot a couple of years ago.

My best friend is gay, as are my aunt, and my uncle who died of AIDS. I was not raised with religion, and bought into the myth that homosexuality is not only ok, but something to be supported and fought for.

I converted to Catholicism at 19, at a liberal state university, and had a very hard time turning my heart towards the Church teaching on homosexuality activity. Ultimately I realized that even when you don’t fully understand WHY something is wrong, you know everything ELSE is right, so you ride the church’s coat tails…that just happen to be 2000 years long. If you’re on for the ride, and you keep on praying for guidance, God’s going to lead you to the Truth in all matters.

THAT SAID – Your sister is not evil, and should not be treated any differently than anyone else. We are all sinners. If she follows Church teaching, she may even well be a future Saint. :slight_smile:

As for practical advice, let me tell you how I’ve reconciled my beliefs with my friend’s actively gay lifestyle:

  1. I give him a huge hug every time I see him
  2. I tell him how lucky I am to know someone with such great qualities (other than being gay!)
  3. We talk very little about being gay
  4. If the topic comes up, I’m upfront about my beliefs, and attempt to explain why I believe them.
  5. I give him another big hug, and pray for him! (and hope he prays for me!)

Ultimately, Matt, this issue is between her and God. Just keep on loving her, like you already do, and God’s going to bless you both.

Nice to meet ya!
Dianne


#20

Here are some bible quotes on homosexuality:

Gen 19 (God destroys Sodom for its homosexual perversions.)
Lev 18:20 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman."
Lev 20:13 (If man lies with a man, they shall be put to death for their abominable deed.)
Rom 1:24 "handed them over to impurity…mutual degradation of their bodies."
Rom 1 26-27 "females exchanges natural relations for unnatural…Males did shameful things with males."
1 Cor 6 9-10 "neither…boy prostitutes nor sodomites…will inherit the kingdom"
1 Tim 1:10 “unchaste, sodomites…whatever else is opposed to sound teaching.”

We are to love the homosexual PERSON, but not the behavior which is gravely disordered.

Peace to you and your sister.

Llindalou:)


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