a question for all the protestanta (particularly pentecostals)


#1

:):)hello! i used to be pentecostal and we had communion every Easter. i always thought it was symbolic. (not the True Presence just a plain bread and grape juice) i thought pentecostals just did this as a memorial while belieiving their communion was symbolic. am i right?? ALL PROTESTANS ANSWER!!! (Catholic comments welcome too) :slight_smile:


#2

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:1, topic:302589"]
:):)hello! i used to be pentecostal and we had communion every Easter. i always thought it was symbolic. (not the True Presence just a plain bread and grape juice) i thought pentecostals just did this as a memorial while belieiving their communion was symbolic. am i right?? ALL PROTESTANS ANSWER!!! (Catholic comments welcome too) :)

[/quote]

I have been to Protestant churches in which communion is regarded as symbolic, and hardly significant (pentecostal and Baptist), to Protestant churches in which it is regarded as symbolic, and a vital part of the faith (Presbyterian), to Protestant churches in which it is regarded as symbolic, yet holy (non-affiliated), and to Protestant churches in which the Eucharist is received as a sacrament including the Real Presence of Christ (Anglican).

As usual with anything about Protestantism, it varies a lot.


#3

When a person comes to the realization that the real presence is only found in the Catholic mass..one is the bound to be Catholic...as I was and am. Some people are so revulsed at that idea that they fight the truth..they won't hear it. This is the power of prejudice and false teaching.:shrug:


#4

[quote="pismopal, post:3, topic:302589"]
When a person comes to the realization that the real presence is only found in the Catholic mass..one is the bound to be Catholic...as I was and am. Some people are so revulsed at that idea that they fight the truth..they won't hear it. This is the power of prejudice and false teaching.:shrug:

[/quote]

agreed !! :thumbsup:


#5

What about the Orthodox, PNCC, and others whom the CC recognize as having valid orders and sacraments?

Originally Posted by MaeganFlinchum1
hello! i used to be pentecostal and we had communion every Easter. i always thought it was symbolic. (not the True Presence just a plain bread and grape juice) i thought pentecostals just did this as a memorial while belieiving their communion was symbolic. am i right?? ALL PROTESTANS ANSWER!!! (Catholic comments welcome too)

While I can’t speak for Pentecostals, as I’m not one, not all protestants deny the real presence. Lutherans certainly discern Christ’s real presence in the Sacrament,and with all due respect to Catholic claims to the contrary, we know His body and blood is what we receive in a Lutheran Lord’s Supper.

Jon

Jon


#6

Are the Lutherans with the authority from apostolic succession to transform the bread and wine into the Body and Blood? I don’t think they are so therefore I don’t believe it is really transubstantiated… Kind of like an unordained person trying to consecrate bread and wine … In my opinion


#7

There’s no such realization to come to, since that is objectively a false statement. The Assyrian Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox, and the Eastern Orthodox all have valid sacraments. Also, there are a few other groups outside of communion with Rome that have valid sacraments, such as the Polish National Catholic Church.


#8

[quote="RyanBlack, post:7, topic:302589"]
There's no such realization to come to, since that is objectively a false statement. The Assyrian Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox, and the Eastern Orthodox all have valid sacraments. Also, there are a few other groups outside of communion with Rome that have valid sacraments, such as the Polish National Catholic Church.

[/quote]

And selected portions of the Old Catholics.

And Anglicans. Who are not likely to affirm Apostolicae Curae. As RCs certainly should.

GKC


#9

[quote="Christine85, post:6, topic:302589"]
Are the Lutherans with the authority from apostolic succession to transform the bread and wine into the Body and Blood?

[/quote]

Lutherans don't transform the Body and Blood from bread and wine - we view it as Christ commanded us. "Take eat; this is my body." It is a mystery of faith.

Of course, from the Catholic perspective, we don't have a valid apostolic succession. Though, a rather kind Joesph Cardinal Ratzinger did write this in 1993:

"Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord [Heilschaffende Gegenwart des Herrn] in a Lutheran [evangelische] Lord's Supper"


#10

[quote="Christine85, post:6, topic:302589"]
Are the Lutherans with the authority from apostolic succession to transform the bread and wine into the Body and Blood? I don't think they are so therefore I don't believe it is really transubstantiated... Kind of like an unordained person trying to consecrate bread and wine .. In my opinion

[/quote]

While Apostolic Succession is certainly desirable, ordination is via divine law, and thereby Lutheran presbyter ordination is valid, again with due respect to those who disagree. It is important to note that there has been instances in the Catholic Church where presbyter ordination has taken place, most notably the Cistercian abbots in the 15th century.

Lacking bishops to ordain their candidates for the sacred ministry, the Lutherans appealed to the patristically attested facts that originally bishops and priests constituted only one order; that the right to ordain was inherent in the priesthood (a principle on which a number of popes of the 15th c., among them Boniface IX, Martin V, and Innocent VIII, acted in authorizing Cistercian abbots who were only priests to ordain); that thence “an ordination administered by a pastor in his own church is valid by divine law” (Tractatus 65); and that when the canonical bishops refuse to impart ordination “the churches are compelled by divine law to ordain pastors and ministers, using their own pastors for this purpose (adhibitis suis pastoribus)” (ibid., 72). The succession of the ministry in the Lutheran Church may therefore be presumed to be a valid presbyterial one.

search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-hpd03&p=christian%20cyclodedia&type=

Jon


#11

That is a generalization and there is no need to yell at the forum (all caps is considered yelling). I go to the Charismatic Episcopal Church and we do believe in the Real Presence and partake of the Lord in the Blessed Eucharist upon every Mass.

My Bishop said it wonderfully when he said that Protestants are Christians, but they are starving themselves to death by not receiving the Lord in the Blessed Eucharist


#12

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:1, topic:302589"]
:):)hello! i used to be pentecostal and we had communion every Easter. i always thought it was symbolic. (not the True Presence just a plain bread and grape juice) i thought pentecostals just did this as a memorial while belieiving their communion was symbolic. am i right?? ALL PROTESTANS ANSWER!!! (Catholic comments welcome too) :)

[/quote]

Yes, Pentecostals consider the grape juice (instead of wine) and the bread as symbolic of the blood and body of Christ. Pentecostals do not have a concept of Real Presence in the Eucharist. Take for example the belief statements of two prominent Pentecostal denominations. The Church of God in Christ believes:

The Lord’s Supper symbolizes the Lord’s death and suffering for the benefit and in the place of His people. It also symbolizes the believer’s participation in the crucified Christ. It represents not only the death of Christ as the object of faith which unites the believers to Christ, but also the effect of this act as the giving of life, strength, and joy to the soul. The communicant by faith enters into a special spiritual union of his soul with the glorified Christ.

The Foursquare Church believes:

We believe in the commemoration and observing of the Lord’s supper by the sacred use of the broken bread, a precious type of the Bread of Life, even Jesus Christ, whose body was broken for us; and by the juice of the vine, a blessed type which should ever remind the participant of the shed blood of the Savior who is the true vine of which His children are the branches; that this ordinance is a glorious rainbow that spans the gulf of years between Calvary and the coming of the Lord, when in the Father’s kingdom, He will partake anew with His children; and that the serving and receiving of this blessed sacrament should be ever preceded by the most solemn heart-searching, self-examination, forgiveness and love toward all men, that none partake unworthily and drink condemnation to his own soul.

However, we do have varying degrees of belief in the "tangible presence" of God. This is sometimes referred to (drawing on biblical terminology) as the Shekinah glory of God. This is when the presence or anointing of God is manifested in a way that can be felt, sensed, and identified. It is as if the Spirit of God is settling or resting in the midst of his people.


#13

[quote="cath4alltime, post:11, topic:302589"]
That is a generalization and there is no need to yell at the forum (all caps is considered yelling). I go to the Charismatic Episcopal Church and we do believe in the Real Presence and partake of the Lord in the Blessed Eucharist upon every Mass.

My Bishop said it wonderfully when he said that Protestants are Christians, but they are starving themselves to death by not receiving the Lord in the Blessed Eucharist

[/quote]

all caps is not considered yelling. i did that so it was eye catching......


#14

[quote="ltwin, post:12, topic:302589"]
Yes, Pentecostals consider the grape juice (instead of wine) and the bread as symbolic of the blood and body of Christ. Pentecostals do not have a concept of Real Presence in the Eucharist. Take for example the belief statements of two prominent Pentecostal denominations. The Church of God in Christ believes:

The Foursquare Church believes:

However, we do have varying degrees of belief in the "tangible presence" of God. This is sometimes referred to (drawing on biblical terminology) as the Shekinah glory of God. This is when the presence or anointing of God is manifested in a way that can be felt, sensed, and identified. It is as if the Spirit of God is settling or resting in the midst of his people.

[/quote]

thank oyu soooo much!! God Bless you! :signofcross:


#15

This is not correct. I suspect they may use valid matter. As for form I do not know what words they use; their form may be valid or invalid. There is the intent of the priest to consider. Would a Lutheran ‘priest’ have the correct intent. The one certain aspect of the Lutheran Eucharist is the lack of a valid priesthood. Without valid priests the Eucharist cannot be confected.


#16

The Eucharist is the best part of my week!!!! I love Jesus!!!!


#17

Yes it is and poor internet etiquette, it makes you appear as if you think more of yourself.


#18

my apologies, i try not to want others to think more of me than i am. God Bless you :signofcross:


#19

Yes, I believe Pentecostals believe it is only a memorial, as do “Christian Churches/Churches of Christ”, Baptists, Calvinists and most others not in Apostolic Succession.

RC, Orthodox and Anglicans as well as off shoots of these claim real presence.


#20

[quote="ChurchSoldier, post:19, topic:302589"]
Yes, I believe Pentecostals believe it is only a memorial, as do "Christian Churches/Churches of Christ", Baptists, Calvinists and most others not in Apostolic Succession.

RC, Orthodox and Anglicans as well as off shoots of these claim real presence.

[/quote]

Thanks!!


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