A Question: Marriage


#21

I’m sorry but this isn’t correct. The mother’s first marriage must be investigated by the priest and receive an official decree. I know it is a lack of form and the situation quickly resolved, but until it is officially resolved the current marriage in invalid.

The current marriage can not be convalidated until the mother’s first marriage is declared null.


#22

A child worrying about his/her parents’ sexual relations is just plain creepy. Don’t even think about it.


#23

@Kei–If you don’t mind my asking, how old are you?

Lovely name, by the way. I had a dear friend in college whose name is/was Kei, short for Keiko. (I won’t say she was my girlfriend, although we did most of the things that boyfriends and girlfriends do)


#24

It’s also a handle name on various other things. It’s short for my real name, and though it is pronounced the same it is spelled differently.


#25

I’m sorry, but we can worry in general about sexual relations, right? So why not individually?
Is it because it’s my parents that adds the idea of creepy-ness?


#26

@Horton,

Are you in Canada? IIRC, Canadian posters have asserted that there, the parish priest can process a lack of form nullity themselves, on their own authority. That’s not the way it works in the U.S., though. Rather, although a parish priest might act as advocate, the diocesan canon law office must get involved, and it is through them that this type of nullity is processed.

@ChunkMonk,

@Horton is correct that it’s not quite as simple as saying, "oh, you crazy kids… go and get married for reals! :wink: "

In fact, since there was public witness to an attempt at marriage, it’s necessary for the Church to investigate the matter formally and make a formal statement that both are free to marry. A decree of nullity (due to lack of form) accomplishes precisely this.


#27

I’m in the US. I didn’t mean to imply the priest can make the declaration on nullity, but on a lack of form case the priest or advocate gathers the material and sends it to the tribunal. For a case like this he really only needs two documents, a baptism certificate and the wedding license showing where they got married.


#28

Actually, you need a bit more than that.

Not only is it necessary to demonstrate that the original attempt at marriage was invalid, but also that there was no subsequent convalidation of the marriage. Therefore, it’s necessary through official documents to show the date of the permanent separation (i.e., the civil divorce decree) as well as the results of a search of all dioceses in which the couple resided while civilly married. (This search will establish that there was no subsequent valid attempt at marriage in any of these places of residence.)


#29

Actually, a certified copy of the sacramental record from the baptismal parish is what proves there were no attempts at marriage in the Church. Parishes get these request all the time and we also notify baptismal parishes with sacramental updates for people who receive sacraments here.


#30

Yes, but parishes aren’t perfect at maintaining records. Moreover, the accuracy of the sacramental record also depends on the receipt (from the parish where the marriage took place) of the info to be entered into the baptismal register. So, it’s not just the “baptismal extract with notations” from the parish of baptism that’s required.

However, an attempt at a convalidation requires that paperwork be sent to the canon law office of the diocese where the convalidation will occur, for their approval. Therefore, that diocesan office maintains records (and generally speaking, it maintains them more reliably than parishes). So, when a ‘lack of form’ nullity is being processed, the advocate sends out a letter to each diocese in which the couple had resided, asking them to search their records for any dispensation, validation, or sanation for the couple. That’s what ‘proves’ there were no subsequent attempts at marriage within the Church. :wink:


#31

Generally, we should not worry about others’ sex lives. We should pray that we and others can avoid sin. It is disordered for a child to be involved in his parents’ sexual relationship. If you doubt this, please find a pastor, counselor, or similar trusted adult to consult with. Pray for your parents, but do not try to manage their lives.


#32

There need to be some privacy boundaries within a family. Generally, a child being concerned about a parent’s sex life is off limits. The only reason for a child to cross this boundary would be out of a serious concern that his or her parent was being abused by the sexual partner, such as being beaten or raped, or otherwise being the victim of a crime or fraud connected to the sex acts. Otherwise, it’s a bit of an invasion of privacy. In the same manner, adult children who have established themselves as self-supporting adults would also consider their own sex lives “off limits” to their parents.


#33

I thought we were duty bound to help others keep from sin, as well as ourselves?
Where does the boundary between what is enough and too far?
If you know someone living loosely, would you not try to correct them, is it trying to keep them from such?


#34

But it’s not like they’re keeping it private, they’re pretty open about it. I’m not asking about it, I simply am aware of what goes on, and can tell by their actions.

We are sharing a hotel room right at this moment, and hence when they ask me if I would mind going out like to the gym for their private time, I know what that may imply, and I am simply concerned.


#35

Well, I guess that Dioceses have different practices :slight_smile:


#36

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

You’re 19. If you’re at a hotel, on your parent’s dime and they want you to go and leave them alone.

LEAVE THEM ALONE.

You’re not 7 or 8. Heck, parents need down time WITH young children…that’s why there are babysitters. I cannot imagine how irate I’d be as a parent if my grown-arse child refused to leave the hotel room so she could “babysit” my husband and I because she felt that we were sinning. I’d probably take money out of our joint account, pay for a new room and tell her she was not to enter my hotel room under any circumstances.

I have 3 brothers. By the time I was 18 if we had to travel, we planned ways to not share a hotel room with our parents. Sometimes this meant that I stayed with their girlfriends while they shared a room and my parents had a room. Heck—probably by 15 or 16. Not that we did very often, but seriously.

Go down to the gym, have a nice workout and leave them the heck alone. Good grief. Is it just me or are a majority of the 18-20 somethings on here unable to live their own lives.

The other Xan posted this in a different thread. I think it’s highly appropriate.

Get OUT of your parent’s business. Yesterday.

If they want advice, you can be prepared with the right advice to give, but the level of direction you want to provide is wholy unhealthy.


#37

As a married woman, that creeps me out. I would never ever ever ever ask my teen or my adult child to leave the room so we can have sex. Talk about crossing a boundary!


#38

To be fair, her parents asked for some quiet time. Kei is making the implication. As adults, we can see how there may be that implication, but honestly, as a parent sometimes you really do need some 1:1 time with your spouse away from the kids. I cannot imagine having a 19yo that wouldn’t leave a small hotel room for a few minutes. I’d go crazy.

I’ve been to a hotel with a toddler. At least her I could stick in the pack’n’play with some toys so I can take a shower without feeling like I’m being watched constantly. I know one hotel my hubby stayed at for business offered a free babysitting service for 1-12 yo’s from 5pm-9pm so their parents could go out to dinner. (this was in our pre-kid days). Maybe the OP’s hotel needs to have that service and raise the age to 19 so they can be alone for a moment.


#39

In my mind, one stays at a hotel on vacation or a visit to an event, for work, etc. Simply sitting in the room together all day would be weird anyway!

If I wanted to speak privately have one on one time, my husband and I would take a walk, go get a cup of coffee, go sit by the pool.

If we could not last the trip time without sex, we’d get a separate room. That is what my folks did when we traveled, they got two rooms with an adjoining door. That door was closed at night, but, if we needed them we only had to knock on the door.


#40

Again, it seems to me that they were over-generous in letting a 19yo stay in the room with them.

But I still think they have every right to ask her to make herself scarce for few hours. They are footing the bill, not her. If they are comfortable and want quiet, (implications aside) then she should be the one to leave, not them.


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