A question on contemporary and traditional Catholicism??


#1

Hey Everyone!!

Disclaimer** I am not trying to start a fight, im just asking for opinions, no rude comments or sarcastic ones either!!

I have noticed something. Why is it that contemporary Catholicism (what you would call "liberal Catholic) emphasize social justice (e.g helping the homeless, the immigrant, etc.) and Traditional Catholicism ephasizes Mysticism and prayer. Now i can be very wrong but i have a soft spot for homeless people. However my leanings are traditional. Is there such a rift between the ephasis or am i just seeing things?? Any help please !! :)


#2

This one ought to get "warm" soon. Think I'll just watch for a bit. :whistle:


#3

I dont want it to get warm, i am just asking, respectively, and i dont want anyone accusing me here as i love both the EF and the NO.


#4

This is a quote by Blessed Pope John XXIII taken from Rorate-Caeli blogspot;
John XXIII: What priests are supposed to do

John XXIII offers the Holy Sacrifice,
Dec. 1962

50 years ago, as he prepared for the opening of his Council, Pope John XXIII met participants at the first International Congress for Priestly Vocations. It was a Saturday, like today, May 26, 1962. If only the Council had expressed this spirit, the spirit with which he concluded his short address...

" Finally, may priests be careful not to give themselves totally to activism and exterior works of their ministry. By acting with such imprudent behavior, by slowly impoverishing the soul, one is incapable of working for the good of the parish and of the diocese. This also causes grave detriment to the vocations to the priesthood. For how will young men understand the seriousness of the priestly office if they do not see in priests an example of perfection which they may want to imitate?

For which priests must remember, in order to give example of perfect behavior, that the most important activities in their mission are: [1] to offer the Sacrifice of the Altar worthily; [2] to announce the word of God; [3] to give the Sacraments; [4] to be near the infirm, particularly the dying; [5] to teach the faith to the ignorant. All the rest that is not pertinent to these activities must be put aside or, at most, tolerated."

I have never had a good opinion of +John XXIII until I read this short piece. My how that statement of his changed my mind. :thumbsup:


#5

Frankly, the reason "progressive" Catholics embrace social justice so much is that it pertains to "social sins." By focusing on social sins that are created by society or groups, it takes the spotlight off of "personal sins," which tend to hit closer to home and might create feelings of guilt.

That said, every Catholic should embrace social justice. But it's no secret that the other areas of our faith often take a back seat to social justice for those who lean leftward.


#6

[quote="mymamamary, post:1, topic:287659"]
Hey Everyone!!

Disclaimer** I am not trying to start a fight, im just asking for opinions, no rude comments or sarcastic ones either!!

I have noticed something. Why is it that contemporary Catholicism (what you would call "liberal Catholic) emphasize social justice (e.g helping the homeless, the immigrant, etc.) and Traditional Catholicism ephasizes Mysticism and prayer.

[/quote]

I have never found Trads to be into anything mystical. They pray, yes. Rosaries, LOH, whatever. But mysticism? Cloud of Unknowing? Heaven forbid!

Jesus said to feed and clothe and house the less fortunate. He said Mary chose the better part. That's charity and mysticism.

Trads like parameters, which is fine, but they just can't seem to stand the thought that everyone isn't coloring inside the same lines.

The rest of us are still looking for the crayons.


#7

[quote="surritter, post:5, topic:287659"]
Frankly, the reason "progressive" Catholics embrace social justice so much is that it pertains to "social sins." By focusing on social sins that are created by society or groups, it takes the spotlight off of "personal sins," which tend to hit closer to home and might create feelings of guilt.

That said, every Catholic should embrace social justice. But it's no secret that the other areas of our faith often take a back seat to social justice for those who lean leftward.

[/quote]

Wow, that's a pretty sad way of viewing your fellow Catholics. How do you know what reason they have for "focusing on social sins?". Maybe they were once in a bad way themselves and someone from the Church helped them and they are paying it forward? Maybe that's the gift God gave them, to assist people on the margins of society. Assuming that people who concentrate on social sins are all trying to avoid dealing with their personal sins hardly seems charitable.


#8

[quote="Seeker1961, post:7, topic:287659"]
Wow, that's a pretty sad way of viewing your fellow Catholics. How do you know what reason they have for "focusing on social sins?". Maybe they were once in a bad way themselves and someone from the Church helped them and they are paying it forward? Maybe that's the gift God gave them, to assist people on the margins of society. Assuming that people who concentrate on social sins are all trying to avoid dealing with their personal sins hardly seems charitable.

[/quote]

Sorry to have stirred the pot. But tell me if this sounds strange (this is a summary of MANY conversations with those who would call themselves progressive Catholics):
"Well, maybe abortion is wrong, but shouldn't we be more focused on health care or the economy, which affect many more people?"
If we know Church teaching, then that statement should seem strange to you.

And please recall that the OP was interested in general ideas that pertain to a very general perception. So I obviously am not painting a picture of each Catholic. But what I wrote can be seen as a root cause for a healthy percentage of progressives -- and that term is usually a signpost of someone who has deviated from some essential Church teaching. You take offense and think that I'm claiming this about anyone involved in social justice. That's not a leap that you should have made.


#9

[quote="mymamamary, post:1, topic:287659"]
Hey Everyone!!

Disclaimer** I am not trying to start a fight, im just asking for opinions, no rude comments or sarcastic ones either!!

I have noticed something. Why is it that contemporary Catholicism (what you would call "liberal Catholic) emphasize social justice (e.g helping the homeless, the immigrant, etc.) and Traditional Catholicism ephasizes Mysticism and prayer. Now i can be very wrong but i have a soft spot for homeless people. However my leanings are traditional. Is there such a rift between the ephasis or am i just seeing things?? Any help please !! :)

[/quote]

I think maybe you are just seeing a small geographic quirk. Around here, it is the more traditional parishes that run the food pantries, hand out food and blankets to those living on the street, and set up centers to provide material support to women in crisis pregnancies. :shrug: The more liberal parishes are more involved in political activism but not so much the "boots on the ground" work.


#10

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:6, topic:287659"]
I have never found Trads to be into anything mystical. They pray, yes. Rosaries, LOH, whatever. But mysticism? Cloud of Unknowing? Heaven forbid!

Jesus said to feed and clothe and house the less fortunate. He said Mary chose the better part. That's charity and mysticism.

Trads like parameters, which is fine, but they just can't seem to stand the thought that everyone isn't coloring inside the same lines.

The rest of us are still looking for the crayons.

[/quote]

Julia Mae can't seem to stand trads. ;)

I think the more traditional Catholics I know are less enthusiastic about lay leadership within a parish. I prefer to let the clergy lead myself so I can empathize. The result, it seems to me, is that they do their works of mercy as individuals or families and the rest of the parish never knows about it. Besides, charity is something the rest of the Church is particularly focused on these days, so it's not an area where trads disagree with the mainstream, meaning it isn't much of a topic for the Internet.


#11

I would say that progressive Catholicism advocates for an extremely skewed and biased form of social justice. I would say that progressive Catholicism, at its root, is based in narcissistic factors and/or a poor religious education. A Catholic with a good religious education cannot legitimately support the poor and not support the pro-life movement, for example, even if said Catholic is active in only serving the poor.

Furthermore, I would say that traditional Catholicism is rooted in social justice just as equally as progressive Catholicism. The difference, I think, is that traditional Catholicism does this with a full and well-rounded set of principles, rather than just, "Whine, I feel bad, help me." I would say that progressive Catholicism's "flavor" of social justice is ironically reactionary and wrong-minded.


#12

[quote="mymamamary, post:1, topic:287659"]
Hey Everyone!!

Disclaimer** I am not trying to start a fight, im just asking for opinions, no rude comments or sarcastic ones either!!

I have noticed something. Why is it that contemporary Catholicism (what you would call "liberal Catholic) emphasize social justice (e.g helping the homeless, the immigrant, etc.) and Traditional Catholicism ephasizes Mysticism and prayer. Now i can be very wrong but i have a soft spot for homeless people. However my leanings are traditional. Is there such a rift between the ephasis or am i just seeing things?? Any help please !! :)

[/quote]

You may call "contemporary Catholicism "liberal" Catholic", but I don't. My OF Parish stresses the need to study scripture, prayer, Adoration, etc. The same things that are considered mortal sins in a Traditional parish are considered mortal sins in my OF Parish. I'm not seeing a liberal difference here.


#13

Please dont get this topic hot, i was just asking, so lets be true brothers and sisters in CHRIST and state our opinions peacefully (which surprisingly for the most part, this thread has done well), like i said, i have traditional leanings, mysticism, i love gregorian chant, basilicas, neo gothic churches and basilicas, traditional stained glass, the Holy Rosary, the Sacred Heart, Latin, incensce, traditional altar server cassocks, Priests dressed in their cassocks and altar boys, not girls ( please dont shoot me, this is just my opinion :p), david haas has a few good hymns but the rest belong at retreats and revival meetings, not Holy Mass. I love and respect Brothers and Nuns dressed in their traditional habits not plainclothes and suits (for the nuns :( ). That being said however, i love the homeless, the immigrant, anyone looking for the LORD JESUS, the imprisioned, the sick etc. So :shrug:


#14

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:6, topic:287659"]
I have never found Trads to be into anything mystical. They pray, yes. Rosaries, LOH, whatever. But mysticism? Cloud of Unknowing? Heaven forbid!

Jesus said to feed and clothe and house the less fortunate. He said Mary chose the better part. That's charity and mysticism.

Trads like parameters, which is fine, but they just can't seem to stand the thought that everyone isn't coloring inside the same lines.

The rest of us are still looking for the crayons.

[/quote]

You're generalizing. I know two third order traditional Catholics in our small TLM community. In fact, I know an FSSP parish which also has a carmelite lay community.

You can't paint everyone with a broad brush.

I happen to be traditional and into mysticism.

In general, many Catholics avoid the mystics. I don't think "contemporary" Catholics are any more into the mystics than trads are.


#15

[quote="mymamamary, post:13, topic:287659"]
Please dont get this topic hot, i was just asking, so lets be true brothers and sisters in CHRIST and state our opinions peacefully (which surprisingly for the most part, this thread has done well), like i said, i have traditional leanings, mysticism, i love gregorian chant, basilicas, neo gothic churches and basilicas, traditional stained glass, the Holy Rosary, the Sacred Heart, Latin, incensce, traditional altar server cassocks, Priests dressed in their cassocks and altar boys, not girls ( please dont shoot me, this is just my opinion :p), david haas has a few good hymns but the rest belong at retreats and revival meetings, not Holy Mass. I love and respect Brothers and Nuns dressed in their traditional habits not plainclothes and suits (for the nuns :( ). That being said however, i love the homeless, the immigrant, anyone looking for the LORD JESUS, the imprisioned, the sick etc. So :shrug:

[/quote]

If you are referring to me, I'm not trying to make the topic hot. I just don't see what's liberal about my particular church. I've not been to a Latin Mass, but I love the things you do. I do know a nun who wears street clothes and the love of God oozes from every pore in her body. I happen to like seeing nuns and brothers in their habits.


#16

[quote="YoungTradCath, post:11, topic:287659"]
I would say that progressive Catholicism advocates for an extremely skewed and biased form of social justice.

[/quote]

Definitely. "Our faith is based on justice, equality, and love. And the greatest of these is love." I actually read that yesterday online. I think this is what the issue with the LWCR is about but thankfully I don't think it represents most contemporary Catholics.


#17

[quote="maltmom, post:15, topic:287659"]
If you are referring to me, I'm not trying to make the topic hot. I just don't see what's liberal about my particular church. I've not been to a Latin Mass, but I love the things you do. I do know a nun who wears street clothes and the love of God oozes from every pore in her body. I happen to like seeing nuns and brothers in their habits.

[/quote]

I agree it was poorly phrased, but innocently, I think.


#18

[quote="Rich_C, post:17, topic:287659"]
I agree it was poorly phrased, but innocently, I think.

[/quote]

I agree. That's why I wanted to stress that I wasn't trying to make it hot. I was confused.


#19

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:6, topic:287659"]
I have never found Trads to be into anything mystical. They pray, yes. Rosaries, LOH, whatever. But mysticism? Cloud of Unknowing? Heaven forbid!

Jesus said to feed and clothe and house the less fortunate. He said Mary chose the better part. That's charity and mysticism.

Trads like parameters, which is fine, but they just can't seem to stand the thought that everyone isn't coloring inside the same lines.

The rest of us are still looking for the crayons.

[/quote]

... or eating them :hypno:


#20

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:6, topic:287659"]
I have never found Trads to be into anything mystical. They pray, yes. Rosaries, LOH, whatever. But mysticism? Cloud of Unknowing? Heaven forbid!

Jesus said to feed and clothe and house the less fortunate. He said Mary chose the better part. That's charity and mysticism.

Trads like parameters, which is fine, but they just can't seem to stand the thought that everyone isn't coloring inside the same lines.

The rest of us are still looking for the crayons.

[/quote]

I enjoyed reading your post. As a traditionalist or Tradical lol myself in reading your comments I think you hit the nail right on the head.

"Trads like parameters, which is fine, but they just can't seem to stand the thought that everyone isn't coloring inside the same lines".

It dirves me crazy going to NO mass alter girls bobbytail bouncing to and fro dressed up like a priest,no alter rails,an amry of Eucharistic ministers,no distinction between the sanctuary and the nave (the alter rail served more than one purpose) the high alter is all but gone,the tabernacle in and out of the sanctuary,people throwing around the orans posture all the while they have no clue in what they are doing or even why they use it.Eucharistic Ministers blessing the small children, Clown Masses,Clapping, People grabbing at you to hold their hand instead of respecting your right not to have to. etc...


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