A question..

Greetings,

I normaly visit an atheist board and sometimes a question addressed to Christians is this:

“If God told you to kill someone would you do it?”

as Catholics we do not relly on personal revelation so the question can be changed to say:

“If the Pope or The Church commanded you to go and kill, would you do it?”

bear in mind that there are serveral occasions in which God, in the Old Testament commands his people to kill others. Knowing this, what would be your response to the question?

The Ecclesiastical law gives way to positive divine law and natural law, which both forbid unjust killing.

[quote=challenger]The Ecclesiastical law gives way to positive divine law and natural law, which both forbid unjust killing.
[/quote]

But, if it’s commanded by God, it’s surely just.

So, in that case if The Church commands us to kill it would it be a just killing?

Would you follow the commandment? I just simply want to know how you would respond to it.

[quote=Asimis]Greetings,

I normaly visit an atheist board and sometimes a question addressed to Christians is this:

“If God told you to kill someone would you do it?”

as Catholics we do not relly on personal revelation so the question can be changed to say:

“If the Pope or The Church commanded you to go and kill, would you do it?”

bear in mind that there are serveral occasions in which God, in the Old Testament commands his people to kill others. Knowing this, what would be your response to the question?
[/quote]

Let’s look at history. God commanded Abraham to kill his son. Abraham was about to do it, but God stopped him. It might seem that we should just follow God as Abraham did since Abraham was praised for this, but remember that Abraham didn’t have the level of revelation we have. God didn’t even give the 10 commandments yet. God holds us accountable for what we know.

From the Church we know that we cannot do evil so that good may come from it, even if that good is being faithful to an impression of God… more on that later… Further, from the story (God stoppped it), and from the 10 commandments and from the Church, we know that killing the innocent is always wrong. Furthermore, God cannot be other than what God is, so in light of all this, we would therefore seriously wonder if God was asking us to kill or if it was a hallucination or some other explanation. The same goes for the Church in a sense, because the Church cannot be other that what it is (a teacher of truth). I would conclude that I was interpreting official Church teaching incorrectly.

If the Pope told me to kill someone, I could easily refuse without a problem, because although Popes are infallible when defining a doctrine of faith or morals for all Catholics to believe, he is nonetheless a sinner like everyone else. I do not have to be complicit in his sinfulness.

Lastly, remember that God himself is the author of life and can take life. So, of course, this doesn’t prevent him from using other people’s sins to accomplish his plan. God writes straight with crooked lines, as the saying goes.

hey no offense but that’s a stupid question

[quote=Asimis]Greetings,

I normaly visit an atheist board and sometimes a question addressed to Christians is this:

“If God told you to kill someone would you do it?”

as Catholics we do not relly on personal revelation so the question can be changed to say:

“If the Pope or The Church commanded you to go and kill, would you do it?”

bear in mind that there are serveral occasions in which God, in the Old Testament commands his people to kill others. Knowing this, what would be your response to the question?
[/quote]

If the Pope or the Church told me to kill someone I would not be obliged to do so, because a command to kill is not an infallible statement on doctrine or morals.

Keeping in mind that this is a hypothetical, and I am not about to go out and inflict any sort of injury on anyone tonight: If I received a message directly from God that I was to kill a person I would (1) question my own sanity; then (2) If I could assure myself that I was sane and I was receiving a direct command from the Almighty, I would trust Him and set out to perform the act He commanded of me, trusting in His divine and loving nature to guide me, and praying that my concupiscence would not lead me into a sinful excess in performing only His will as opposed to my own will.

Having answered the question, I pose to you that the God revealed in the Bible and in Church teaching would not command one of His own to kill for an arbitrary and capricious reason. The question itself reveals an incomplete understanding of the information contained in those two sources.

Peace and Charity,

“If God told you to kill someone would you do it?”

Yes!

“If the Pope or The Church commanded you to go and kill, would you do it?”

Depends on what the reason is and why. These questions are better if they offer some specific scenario.

-D

Seeing as one of the ten commandments expressly forbids killing, I doubt God (or the church) would command you to kill anyone. It’s a non-issue. It’s like saying to a Buddhist person, that if they had a vision of buddha that told them to follow a materialistic life and and never meditate or something, would they go and do that. (probably not the most awesome example but you get my point.) It’s the opposite of what Christians believe. Anyone that thinks that God might tell them to kill someone in cold blood needs their head examined…because such a thought would not be coming from God.

[quote=Celia]Anyone that thinks that God might tell them to kill someone in cold blood needs their head examined…because such a thought would not be coming from God.
[/quote]

(1 Sam 15:1-3 NIV) Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. {2} This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. {3} Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’

There are a couple of accounts in The Bible in which God commands people to kill. Same with Abraham and Joshua.

Now, knowing that it is possible for God to command us to kill someone, since we don’t relly in personal interpretation, in this case if The Church says that God wants X or Y killed be it a group of persons, a nation or whatever. Will you do it?

[quote=marineboy]hey no offense but that’s a stupid question
[/quote]

Why?

It isn’t a stupid question. But his was a stupid post.

I’m not trying to hijack this thread but I have some follow up questions:

How does one know it’s God?

As far as the Pope is concerned - if what he says isn’t supported by church teaching than no I don’t have to obey. If there were ever to be an anti-Pope in the future one could tell because he would do and say things contrary to the the Church.

[quote=Blood Rain]As far as the Pope is concerned - if what he says isn’t supported by church teaching than no I don’t have to obey. If there were ever to be an anti-Pope in the future one could tell because he would do and say things contrary to the the Church.
[/quote]

All fine and dandy but…what about the Crusades? They were commanded and aproved by The Church and blessings and absolution of sins were given to those who participated or supported them in some way.

[quote=marineboy]hey no offense but that’s a stupid question
[/quote]

No it’s not, it’s a valid question. The Pope told the crusaders to kill and offered indulgences for it to boot. So to me, the question is very valid. But you are entitled to your opinion.

[quote=Blood Rain]How does one know it’s God?
[/quote]

If I were in a scenario like Abraham was when he was instructed to kill his son, God would make himself known. If there were any doubt at all it would never happen. It would take a thundering voice from mid air and proof it was from God. If that happened to me I would do it in a heart beat. When people hear the voice of God on the inside and it’s telling them to kill that’s mental illness.

-D

[quote=Darrel]If I were in a scenario like Abraham was when he was instructed to kill his son, God would make himself known. If there were any doubt at all it would never happen. It would take a thundering voice from mid air and proof it was from God. If that happened to me I would do it in a heart beat. When people hear the voice of God on the inside and it’s telling them to kill that’s mental illness.

-D
[/quote]

But it could also be Satan, right? He could be playing it on you, so how would you be able to know if it is God?

That is why I tried to put it in terms of The Church, if The Church tells you to kill someone, would you do it?

[quote=Asimis]But it could also be Satan, right? He could be playing it on you, so how would you be able to know if it is God?

That is why I tried to put it in terms of The Church, if The Church tells you to kill someone, would you do it?
[/quote]

How did Moses know the burning bush was not the devil? God would make me know in a way that would work for me without a shadow of a doubt. Perhaps he would fill me with terror so I would fall on the ground as dead and then an angel would touch me and the fear would be gone and I would feel the overpowering love of God. He is God if he wants me to be made positive he will and he will do it with ease and perfection.

With regards to the Church I would make a decision and act on it. Men run the Church and mistakes can be made. There is a big difference between God saying do this and men saying do this. I think God would expect me to scrutinize such an order from the Church. It’s too bad more people didnt scrutinize at Jonestown. I doubt I would be drinking any grape cool-aid.

-D

[quote=Asimis]But it could also be Satan, right? He could be playing it on you, so how would you be able to know if it is God?

That is why I tried to put it in terms of The Church, if The Church tells you to kill someone, would you do it?
[/quote]

And it was answered quite well by Robert in SD.

Scott

[quote=Celia]Seeing as one of the ten commandments expressly forbids killing, I doubt God (or the church) would command you to kill anyone. It’s a non-issue.
[/quote]

Four words: Saint Joan of Arc

ITS STUPID BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS—OBVIOUSLY GOD COULD COMMAND YOU TO KILL SOMEONE IF THE CAUSE WAS JUST–LIKE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT OR SELF DEFENSE–BUT THE QUESTION IMPLIES THAT GOD WOULD ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING UNJUST(KILL)–WHICH OBVIOUSLY GOD CANT DO–GOD CANT ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS UNJUST–JUST LIKE THE POPE CANT CHANGE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS—YES ITS STUPID BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS–ITS LIKE ASKING WHAT IF THE POPE ISSUED A DECREE CHANGING THE 5TH COMMNADENT

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