A sura better than this one?


If I speak in human and angelic tongues 2 but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.

And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.

For we know partially and we prophesy partially,

but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

I want **one **Quranic sura that is better than this one.


injesus, that was a nice qoute and challange and you could have qoute the following too:

Malachi 2:1-3
[1] And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
[2] If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
[3] Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.
(King James BIble)


Isaiah 7:20 (The Message Bible)

And that’s when the Master will take the razor rented from across the Euphrates—the king of Assyria no less!—and shave the hair off your heads and genitals, leaving you shamed, exposed, and denuded. He’ll shave off your beards while he’s at it


Well, gallardo, if it was a nice challenge, why didn’t you accept it. What you posted has nothing to do with the question at hand and is merely an attempt at discrediting the bible. Surely you can do better than that.


yes…how about this:

Isaiah 20
Exposed to Mockery and Jeers
1-2 In the year the field commander, sent by King Sargon of Assyria, came to Ashdod and fought and took it, God told Isaiah son of Amoz, “Go, take off your clothes and sandals,” and Isaiah did it, going about naked and barefooted.
3-6Then God said, “Just as my servant Isaiah has walked around town naked and barefooted for three years as a warning sign to Egypt and Ethiopia, so the king of Assyria is going to come and take the Egyptians as captives and the Ethiopians as exiles. He’ll take young and old alike and march them out of there naked and barefooted, exposed to mockery and jeers—the bared buttocks of Egypt on parade! Everyone who has put hope in Ethiopia and expected help from Egypt will be thrown into confusion. Everyone who lives along this coast will say, ‘Look at them! Naked and barefooted, shuffling off to exile! And we thought they were our best hope, that they’d rescue us from the king of Assyria. Now what’s going to happen to us? How are we going to get out of this?’”
(The Message Bible)


Is’nt the following Biblical passage refers to *the flatulent passing of gas in musical fashion *from the bowels of a prophet. Could this represent a rare instance of humor in the Bible?

Isaiah 16:11
Wherefore my bowels shall sound like a harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh. (King James Bible)

This verse is from old King James version of the BIble. It would be interesting to compare this verse in New King James Version of the Bible.


Douay Bible:

Isaiah 16:11

11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like a harp for Moab, and my inward parts for the brick wall .

But same verse in New American Bible:
Isaiah 16:11
11 Therefore for Moab my breast moans like a lyre, and my heart for Kir-hareseth.

my bowels = my breast ?
inward parts = my heart?

amazing…is there anything better than this?


Again, you’re comparing apples and oranges.:smiley:

The Qur’an is analogous to the O.T., the Jewish Tanakh, filled with tales of the building up of a society, which necessarily involves stories of war, law, and justice. Of course, you can find elements within the Qur’an and the O.T. that emphasize love-unconditional, but that’s not their major purpose.

Jesus Christ, and the Christian New Testament, is analogous to the Muslim Sufis, and the Sufi poetry.

Paul, like the Sufis, was a mystic, thus Paul could write in such a mystical language as love. Among the Sufis, take Ibn Arabi, for instance, or the inestimable Attar:

A garden among the flames!
My heart can take on any form:
A meadow for gazelles,
A cloister for monks,
For the idols, sacred ground,
Ka’ba for the circling pilgrim,
The tables of the Torah,
The scrolls of the Quran.
My creed is Love;
Wherever its caravan turns along the way,
That is my belief,
My faith.

Intoxicated by the Wine of Love.
From each a mystic silence Love demands.
What do all seek so earnestly? 'Tis Love.
What do they whisper to each other? Love.
Love is the subject of their inmost thoughts.
In Love no longer ‘thou’ and ‘I’ exist,
For Self has passed away in the Beloved.
Now will I draw aside the veil from Love,
And in the temple of mine inmost soul,
Behold the Friend; Incomparable Love.
He who would know the secret of both worlds,
Will find the secret of them both, is Love.


Are these Quranic Ayas?:smiley:



Since Jesus left no written Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on him, or authenticated by him when he last departed from Galilee; hence my Catholic friends have little knowledge given by Word of God or Word of Jesus so they believe many creeds/mysteries created by the Catholic Clergy later on, not originated by Jesus himself in person or GodAllahYHWH.

I have several times request by Catholic brother/friend in humanity to **list all such mysteries **once for all and complete with references when originated; may be their non-Catholic friends here could solve them as a gesture of brotherhood and friendship in humanity. Would you kindly do it , please?


I only discuss things with my Catholic and non-Catholics friends and brothers; I don’t debate, because in debate usually love falls as a first causality.


If you got no valuable contribution kindly step out.



I think, it is a better option, to list all the mysteries or to move all the mountains, it is more useful and meaningful.



then please open another thead.


Yes, the reference to bowels is because the Anglosaxon belief that emotions were located there. The original says breast. Cf. Sura 114 the whisperer who whispers in the breast of man. Did you picture satan talking into your chest?
Inward parts, again an old English expression. Cf. lbb in Arabic as the choisest part, and heart. Other semitic languages parrallel it.
How lovely is the image of the opening of the prophet’s breast? Open heart surgery?

btw I saw on another post about a suralikeitcomparing the quran and hadith to the suras there? Are we putting the hadith up as part of the challenge? because there are plenty of “iinteresting” hadith better than this. (the ones on sexual matters are very interesting).


Yes I am quite willing to say that Rumi composed many a sura like it.


But would most Muslims really say that Sufi poetry is comparable to the NT? I’m very happy if they would–I would love for more Muslims to take this attitude. But on the whole the Salafi version of Islam seems quite powerful these days, and even among those Muslims who do make room for Sufism it generally doesn’t seem to be equivalent to the New Testament (at most, it would be equivalent to the writings of the Fathers or the great Doctors of the Church or, in the most obvious analogy, to the writings of the great mystics of Christian tradition). I’m sure there are some Sufis who would agree with you (my dad’s cousin and her husband, for instance, might well take this line), but I doubt they constitute more than a tiny minority of Muslims.



Really good post, InJesus! I would like to hear a Muslim response (and whether many Muslims on this forum agree with Ahimsa’s answer).





and if you want to take on the Orthodox (my home team):


Knock yourself.

now, of course, if we see you continuing to post and showing no evidence that you have looked at the above sites on the mysteries that you asked about, we will have to take it as an admission that YOU DARE NOT, and as a consequence, an admission that you cannot refute them.



You raise an interesting set of questions. For instance, how many Jews, as a percentage of the total Jewish population, became Christian in the first few centuries of the Christian Church? Is that number comparable to the number of Sufis within Islam as a whole?

On a related issue, we do see the rise of Islamic movements, very much influenced by Sufism, but considered to be different religions. I’m thinking of Baha’i, in particular.

I have read references to Rumi’s poety being considered as just as holy as the Qur’an, at least among those who really dig Rumi. But a Sufi’s belief in the uniqueness of the Qur’an, though, would be very different from that of non-Sufi Salafi. A Sufi of Rumi’s order would read, interpret, and understand the Qur’an via Rumi’s writings, which offer quite a different picture of God and Life (if not a different picture of actual legal legislation) than a Salafi reading.

A Sufi regime in Iraq? Perhaps unlikely, unless you’re thinking long (as in Vatican bureaucracy long) term.

Having said that, I don’t want to give the impression that Sufis are all “light and love”. They can get pretty hard-core, as in certain orders in India. And many Muslims denigrate Sufis as “Sufi Poofees”, especially when it comes to how Sufism is presented in the West. And then there are those Muslims who say the last real Sufi died 500 or 1000 years ago, and all the rest are poseurs.



My enjoying friend, please note: I WILL NOT DEBATE.

Why don’t you list the mysteries yourself, it is a matter of your faith, you must be remembering them and also it would be on your finger ends.

Just write the mystery/ies and the reference from OTBible, and since when it has been imported in your faith. Never, be afraid of my refutations, I do it on merit, not on win/lose basis.


So, it is all confusion in Catholicism, in my opinion, which would remain there if they don’t think rationally, logically and reasonably.
I however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented.


No, you will just repeat baseless assertions.

I thought you were “interested” Evidently not that interested.

That being so, I don’t need to be casting pearls before…well, look it up.

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