A Woman Rides the Beast

My boyfriend, whom I love very much and want to convert to Catholicism, gave me A Woman Rides the Beast by Dave Hunt to read. Out of respect, I read it. It was full of so many lies that I have no idea how to begin refuting them. Are any of you familiar with Mr. Hunt’s book? If so, could you please help me? I really want to marry my boyfriend some day, but at this point in time it would not be possible due to our differences of opinion. He is a Fundamentalist.

Have him read “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” by Karl Keating. Fair is fair. :thumbsup:

If he is a fundamentalist, you might want to get him to give up his main basis of belief and hit the doctrine that his whole belief centers around: Sola Scriptura.

In that case let him read the big book, Not By Scripture Alone by Robert Sungenis. That should keep him off your case for awhile. :slight_smile:

Miguel.

Karl’s book is wonderful, and I wish that it would be enough to crack this case. However, this book has so many arguments that I can’t find refutations for! I know that the reason I can’t find them refuted is because they’re so unscholarly as to be considered ridiculous by Catholics and even some Protestants. Therefore, they are dismissed. I would simply tell my boyfriend that they are ridiculous, but he is going to want something much more solid than that, as he believes the claims of this book. I know, these things seem so impossible to solve to me, also. We have had many heated debates in the past, and I sometimes don’t know if he’s the one for me because of it. We are truly in love, and I believe that love conquers all. I pray to the Lord for guidance, but so far I really don’t even know if I’m meant to be with this man. I am entirely confused, and don’t know where to turn.

I should add that he is entirely worried about it too, and it is a great source of stress in our relationship. He also worries because he doesn’t know where I would go if I died, and he says he can’t bear the thought that I would go to hell (because of my beliefs).

heavenly fire ~

What I am going to say is going to sound harsh, but heck I’m going to say it…

Absolutly delay all plans on marraige till you get this ironed out. Agree on this with your boyfriend. He definatly is not the guy for you right now.

I know you said you love him, and that you two are in love. I respect that ~ But frankly, why would you want to marry someone who is NOT a catholic? This should be the first thing on your list - not emotional attachment.

Sorry to sound so big "sister"ly… but I have been there.

I agree with Apologia100 - fair is fair! Have him read Keating’s book, and follow it up with Rome, Sweet Home by Scott Hahn.

It is very typical to get the “Yeah, what about…, and what about… and what about…!” in machine-gun style from fundies. It’s not fair to you to get hit with 79 attacks in one sitting 'cause it’s easy to blast out question after question - far more difficult to answer the questions and give them each the attention they deserve.

Tell him that if he wishes to discuss his problems with Catholicism that you’d be glad to, but only if he’s willing to discuss it rationally, sanely, one at a time, point-by-point. Good luck, and God bless.

[quote=ridesawhitehors]heavenly fire ~

What I am going to say is going to sound harsh, but heck I’m going to say it…

Absolutly delay all plans on marraige till you get this ironed out. Agree on this with your boyfriend. He definatly is not the guy for you right now.

I know you said you love him, and that you two are in love. I respect that ~ But frankly, why would you want to marry someone who is NOT a catholic? This should be the first thing on your list - not emotional attachment.

Sorry to sound so big "sister"ly… but I have been there.
[/quote]

If your boyfriend is worried about you, imagine when he must raise his own children Catholic, if you were to marry.

This all needs to be ironed out before you even think about marrying. Good luck!

<< gave me A Woman Rides the Beast by Dave Hunt to read >>

Just as the book was being published, Jimmy Akin wrote a reply in This Rock to the main premise in that book: that the Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon” in Revelation. Once that premise falls, the whole book for the most part falls. See these articles if you haven’t already

Hunting the Whore of Babylon

More on the Whore

Hunt relies primarily on the following sources (check his endnotes):

Hasler for his history of Vatican Council I
answered by Cuthbert Butler’s scholarly history of same

von Dollinger for papal infallibility
answered by Dom John Chapman and B.C. Butler

Peter De Rosa’s book Vicars of Christ for early papacy
also answered by Dom John Chapman

Guenter Lewey’s book Catholic Church and Nazi Germany for his history of WWII, Pius XII, and Holocaust is answered by any number of recent books, especially Ron Rychlak who’s been on EWTN and CA Live, check out these articles at EWTN

For the Inquisition(s), Hunt relies on various sources, especially Canon Lorente, an unreliable “anti-cleric”, answered by Henry Kamen or Edward Peters books on the Inquisition(s)

On the bad popes, there are many books that are quite a bit more fair than Hunt (he relies on De Rosa here), such as “The Bad Popes” by Chamberlin, or the more recent “Saints and Sinners” by Duffy, but there’s no need to whitewash the history since Jesus chose Judas to be an apostle, etc.

All his sources (with the exception of Lewy) are either “ex-priests”, or anti-Catholic, or both. There is no source in the book that can be called scholarly or fair. On the topics Hunt discusses, the articles in either the old Catholic Encyclopedia (now online at NewAdvent.org) or the New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) would have cleared up about 99% of the historical claims. The doctrinal claims were answered by Keating in Catholicism and Fundamentalism long ago. Dave Armstrong’s Biblical Defense of Catholicism (and his web site) answer the remaining 1%. :stuck_out_tongue: Give him Armstrong’s book.

Here are my two articles answering two big false claims in the book: that the Waldenses were “early evangelicals”, and the Spanish Inquisition supposedly tortured and killed “millions”

Who Were the Waldenses?

Dave Hunt and the Spanish Inquisition

That pretty much covers Hunt’s now 10 year old book. :eek:

Phil P

Heavenly Fire:

Sure we will help you!! Lets start at your first concern… Do you have a specific question to start off with??

Brandon

Listen to PhilVaz :slight_smile:

Kudos to PhilVaz - that was a terrific post! :thumbsup:

[quote=heavenly_fire]Karl’s book is wonderful, and I wish that it would be enough to crack this case. However, this book has so many arguments that I can’t find refutations for! I know that the reason I can’t find them refuted is because they’re so unscholarly as to be considered ridiculous by Catholics and even some Protestants. Therefore, they are dismissed. I would simply tell my boyfriend that they are ridiculous, but he is going to want something much more solid than that, as he believes the claims of this book. I know, these things seem so impossible to solve to me, also. We have had many heated debates in the past, and I sometimes don’t know if he’s the one for me because of it. We are truly in love, and I believe that love conquers all. I pray to the Lord for guidance, but so far I really don’t even know if I’m meant to be with this man. I am entirely confused, and don’t know where to turn.
[/quote]

I am unsure from your response if he has read Karl’s book??

If not he still needs to it is a great read, but there are a few other things to be done first.

  1. I hope you have a Priest that is in line with the Holy Father, and if so ask him for some time.

  2. It is ok to marry a non Catholic if that is God’s will the hard part is determining that. A suggestion put the marriage on hold and spend one month praying the Rosary every day asking Mary to help you understand God’s will for your life.

  3. Get someone to help you talk with this young man on this subject, it may bring some clairty to the issue for both of you.

  4. Ask him to list for you the reasons he is so sure of where he is going, and them post them on this site and you will get some ideas real quick.

God Bless and Slow down if it is his will it will be.

I have a similar problem, yet all together different. My husband is muslim. Before we had children I some how let myself live in a self induced denial that it wouldn’t effect our children and that we would deal with it “when the time comes”. I love my family with all my heart but my advice is to pray the rosary daily until a clear answer is given to you-May God bless both of you.

I guess this is a bit off topic, but since the title of the book is ‘a woman who ride the beast’, I figured I might as well address the common claim that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

I made a page of notes that address this. I obviously have a different interpretation than other Catholics, but it’s certainly not heretical. More importantly, I think it effectively questions even the possibility of the whore being the Catholic Church:

Who is the whore of Babylon in Revelation?

Moreover, it’s entirely based on the Bible. I highly recommend reading all the scriptural references, otherwise the arguments I’ve made don’t speak as loudly.

I hope it’s useful at the very least.

Thanks for the link chosenhoon, it looks interesting, I will have to take some time and go through it all this weekend.

Brandon

Karls book, C & F was one of my first reads years ago… I misplaced it though while moving… DARN! Its an absolute must have and must read in ones book collection. :thumbsup:

heavenly fire,

i have collected many articles on this subject for phatmass.com. they include the following:
Hunting the Whore of Babylon
The Whore of Babylon
The Whore of Babylon and the Book of Revelations
The Whore of Babylon?
Why Isn’t Eastern Orthodoxy the Whore?
Who Is the Whore of Babylon?
Apocalypse: The Whore, The Beasts, and The Rapture
Whore of Babylon
The Whore is Jerusalem (from a non-catholic source)
Rome or Jerusalem? (from a non-catholic source)

i also have the following articles on David Hunt:
Discussion of David Hunt’s Research on Catholicism
A Look at David Hunt, Leading Anti-Catholic Fundamentalist
–[bringyou.to/apologetics/num25.htm](David Hunt and the Spanish Inquisition)

for more on anti-catholicism, go here

for my entire reference section on catholicism, go here

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[quote=heavenly_fire]My boyfriend, whom I love very much and want to convert to Catholicism, gave me A Woman Rides the Beast by Dave Hunt to read. Out of respect, I read it. It was full of so many lies that I have no idea how to begin refuting them. Are any of you familiar with Mr. Hunt’s book? If so, could you please help me? I really want to marry my boyfriend some day, but at this point in time it would not be possible due to our differences of opinion. He is a Fundamentalist.
[/quote]

If I may address another issues. Please remember that YOU will not convert anyone to the Church. That is the job of the holy Spirit.

I reccomend that you do not fight fire with fire. In other words, do not give him Karl Keating’s book or any other refutation to the calumny he has accepted and is spreading. YOU take the high road. I recommend this book too often perhaps but it is very good and might soften his heart: Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie. Once he has softened, then give him Karl Keatings book or some of the other refutations.

Assuming that what you said about the relationship is accurate, I agree with the others. Go slow!

David Hate is a bigot. Period.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.