Abortion and Death Penalty


#1

I have a question - How can people be against abortion but for the death penalty? I am personally against both. A human life is a human life.


#2

Briefly put, It's a question of innocence/public safety and punishment.

I'm pro life and also pro-death penalty.

Why is this in the family section?


#3

How can one be prolife and prodeath. It doesn't make sense. I am adamantly against both. Who are we to take a life, even if that person committed a crime. Yes, lock them up for the rest of their life but not death. Could you pull the switch? I know that at least two people always pull the switch so you never know who actually did the deed. But it's still murder. And there have been so many "guilty" people aquitted based on new DNA evidence that there are bound to be innocent people put to death.

I just dont' get it.

And why is it in the "family life" section? Why are a lot of threads in this section?


#4

Agreed and I too wonder the same thing. I am against both, of course.

To be prolife means exactly that - PROlife. :thumbsup:


#5

[quote="noclevername, post:3, topic:247143"]
How can one be pro life and prodeath. It doesn't make sense. I am adamantly against both. Who are we to take a life, even if that person committed a crime. Yes, lock them up for the rest of their life but not death. Could you pull the switch? I know that at least two people always pull the switch so you never know who actually did the deed. But it's still murder. And there have been so many "guilty" people acquitted based on new DNA evidence that there are bound to be innocent people put to death.

I just dont' get it.

And why is it in the "family life" section? Why are a lot of threads in this section?

[/quote]

Ok, you don't get it, that's fine.

I'm not "pro-death." I'm pro-life, pro-public safety, pro-justice.

Could I pull the switch? Probably not, but I'm glad some people can. I'm sure I could if someone hurt my family.

No, it's not murder, and there are many church teachings on the difference between "murder" and "killing".

If proven substantially that the killer did indeed kill someone, I have no problem having them be executed.

It doesn't belong in family life, move it to social justice, moral theology, you name it.


#6

Then go through the family life forum and move all the ones that don’t belong here. For example “going to a gay bar” or “any theology graduate programs in Rome”, etc. I “know” the folks who post here better than in the other forums and feel more comfortable over here. Why not stick to the subject?

Also, murder/killing, whatever you want to call it is wrong.


#7

Relax my friend. You’ll live longer.


#8

[quote="Rascalking, post:7, topic:247143"]
Relax my friend. You'll live longer.

[/quote]

Why are you being so mean? Get over yourself


#9

[quote="noclevername, post:1, topic:247143"]
I have a question - How can people be against abortion but for the death penalty? I am personally against both. A human life is a human life.

[/quote]

I'm against both as well. I used to be pro death penalty, but as long as our judicial system is imperfect I refuse to risk an innocent life to such a permanent solution. Also I feel it is more Christian to let someone live out their natural life in the hope that someday they may find Christ. I wouldn't want to rob anyone of that opportunity.


#10

[quote="noclevername, post:8, topic:247143"]
Why are you being so mean? Get over yourself

[/quote]

I'm really not sure how in the world you took any my posts for being "mean"...

I'm perfectly over "myself". It's my ex who isn't over me. :thumbsup:


#11

I am pro-life and am against the death penalty as long as the state has "life without parole". If someone is a danger to society, we need to have a way to keep the public safe. With a life sentence, they can get out of prison at some point if they are young.


#12

Noclevername, this is what the Catechism says:

Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm—without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself—the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."68


#13

[quote="vsedriver, post:9, topic:247143"]
I'm against both as well. I used to be pro death penalty, but as long as our judicial system is imperfect I refuse to risk an innocent life to such a permanent solution. Also I feel it is more Christian to let someone live out their natural life in the hope that someday they may find Christ. I wouldn't want to rob anyone of that opportunity.

[/quote]

That is very well put. Thank you for posting that. I'm going to use it when I "debate" the death penalty with folks. That is exactly how I feel, I just couldn't come up with the proper words to use.


#14

If we kill someone, we rob them of the opportunity to repent and save their soul. We don't have the right to do that to someone unless absolutely necessary. Keeping someone in prison for the rest of their lives takes away the necessary part.


#15

I'm pro-life and accept that the death penalty should be a valid punishment. But at the same time, I think it is used too freely. It should be a very rare punishment.

What is even more mind boggling to me are people who are pro-abortion, but are adamantly against the death penalty.


#16

For as long as I can remember, I've been opposed to abortion to some degree (used to support it in limited circumstances but am now fully against it) and pro-death penalty, to the point of writing congressmen asking for broader use of it. For me, it was a "let the punishment fit the crime" mentality, and my supporting a much broader application of it came about after reading lots of true crime books. As I've worked to restrengthen my Catholic faith in recent years, the biggest thing I've struggled with is my views on the death penalty. I still have a hard time with the idea of allowing the most heinous criminals to live after reading about some of the things they've done, but I continue working on how I view this and praying for support to be more open to life in this respect.

[quote="Nechasin, post:15, topic:247143"]
What is even more mind boggling to me are people who are pro-abortion, but are adamantly against the death penalty.

[/quote]

I've always questioned the mentality that supports the wholesale slaughter of the most innocent beings in society but seeks to protect the most despicable criminals. I think it all boils down to a desire to have absolutely no repercussions for one's actions. Abortion eliminates the biggest consequence of promiscuity, while eliminating the death penalty does away with the biggest consequence for the gravest of crimes.


#17

I am a pro-Magisterial Catholic. This also means that I am pro-life. This also means that I do not object to the death penalty in the rare case outlined by the Magisterium where society cannot be kept safe from someone by mere incarceration. Hmm - these are more your international mass murderers and heads of state. But yes other than that I am anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, pro-life, pro-Magesterium.


#18

[quote="noclevername, post:1, topic:247143"]
I have a question - How can people be against abortion but for the death penalty? I am personally against both. A human life is a human life.

[/quote]

I'm of course against abortion but tolerant of the death penalty. An unborn baby is completely innocent, but a murderer is not. You can't compare the two cases side-by-side and determine that pro-lifers who favor the death penalty are necessarily hypocrites. The law has the authority to put to death those deemed too dangerous to society. It does not have the authority to put to death innocent babies in the womb. Now, whether it is better to lock someone up for life or put him to death is another topic.


#19

[quote="mwncheesehead, post:18, topic:247143"]
I'm of course against abortion but tolerant of the death penalty. An unborn baby is completely innocent, but a murderer is not. You can't compare the two cases side-by-side and determine that pro-lifers who favor the death penalty are necessarily hypocrites. The law has the authority to put to death those deemed too dangerous to society. It does not have the authority to put to death innocent babies in the womb. Now, whether it is better to lock someone up for life or put him to death is another topic.

[/quote]

The law has the authority yes. However according to the teachings of JP II it does not have the right unless society cannot be safeguarded from that person by incarceration. A life is a life. We either believe that or we don't.


#20

[quote="joanofarc2008, post:19, topic:247143"]
The law has the authority yes. However according to the teachings of JP II it does not have the right unless society cannot be safeguarded from that person by incarceration. A life is a life. We either believe that or we don't.

[/quote]

The "teachings of JP II" can also be the opinion of John Paul II. Sure, with our prison system, they may be more secure than those jails of the Old West where criminals routinely escaped and harmed more people. But that doesn't change the fact that our officials have the authority to put certain criminals to death and that Church teaching does allow for capital punishment.


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