At what point does the evil abortion become so intolerable that it would justify taking up arms, even if doing so meant a full-scale civil war, so long as there was the reasonable hope of victory?
They kill a million babies a year in the USA. No one is taking up arms. We need to be taking up our rosaries. Every Catholic should be praying the rosary at least once a day. This is the problem we have. We are upset by abortion, marxism, all the progressive filth and lies, yet Catholics do not pray the rosary everyday like Mary asked. Every Catholic needs to be praying the rosary everyday. Way too many cafeteria Catholics. We need Catholics who are serious, pray rosary, they suffer, fast, and do penance. The spiritual battle is real, yet too many Catholics are of the world. It is said, if one has to ask if you are Catholic, you are not!
Why would it never be justified?
It’s not practical so it would result in unneccessary damages.
Most, even perhaps the overwhelming majority, of abortions are not forced on women. It would be a tough sell to ask people to take up arms for something that is basically a free choice.
How can you say there are no circumstances under which it would be practical?
Realistically right now it is not and that’s what really matters.
It happened over slavery. I believe Lincoln was right that the first Civil War was God’s Wrath against the United States for the crimes of slavery. Since we did not repent in our time of grace, God’s just judgment was a war in which 600,000 died and the wealth built up by slavery was destroyed.
My question wasn’t whether or not it was justified at this time; my question concerned how we would know if and when the time does come.
There is an argument about the currrent protests and riots. They seem to be getting far more attention than any March for Life. What will it take to make people “listen”?
Defund the Police is getting far more attention than defund PP. And PP kills far more black people.
This is actually a good question. Over 1 billion unborn human beings have been exterminated in the last 50 years across the world. There has NEVER been something so destructive to human life. Does it validate a just war however? No, primarily because it would be unwinnable and counter productive leading to greater evil. Western Society has become mostly secular, taking up arms against a society that is hostile won’t work, it will only harden their hearts against us. Instead we need to pray the Rosary and convert peoples hearts.
I agree with you but I also feel their aggressive antics have pushed them into the fringes. At the beginning of the protests you had CNN, the BBC, NYT etc all jumping on board supporting them and their agenda and giving them daily publicity, everyday since then they become more of an embarrassment. So much so that the mainstream media want to avoid this embarrassment spreading onto themselves and so are mostly ignoring their antics. The attacking of statues in the UK for example antagonized the people so intensely they had far right groups rise up to meet them and police snipers guarding cultural symbols. The far left might be loud at the moment but they are certainly not as popular as what some in the media want us to believe
I think it would be justified if the US passed laws like China has, which force women to have abortions even when unwanted. Their only one child (and now, only 2 children) laws are horrific; women are hauled off at any time during pregnancy and forcibly aborted. This has resulted in many abuses, such as 5 year old prostitutes, babies thrown into traffic, and so on.
That could, I am sure, never happen in the US. But it would be worth taking up arms against if it did.
This thread is analyzing the motality of violent action against abortion via the just war doctrine, which is the wrong way to go about such analysis. Reading the just war criteria of the Church in its entirety, ie CCC paragraphs 2307 through 2309 (as opposed to just focusing on 2309) makes it clear that it applies only to governments determining to go to war.
CCC 2243 is the proper teaching of the Church to determine if violence to stop abortion would be morally licit.
The Just War teaching does not absolutely rule out a Just Revolution, though the standard for starting a new State against the existing State is much higher than for one State to go to war against another.
But there’s the rub: if the only reason such a war would be unjust is because it’s not realistically winnable, then it becomes just as soon as a viable means of winning the war emerges.
Frankly I think the reason so many do not see it as right, after looking at just war theory again, is that abortion on some level is either less than murder, or is a lesser murder. I need to look into it more though. Might make a thread. I also wouldn’t go to war over it though, or anything for that matter.
No, the just war theory does not address the issue of a just rebellion. It never has. Aquinas addressed the issues separately, as does the Catechism today. Just as it does not address the issue of self-defense. There are similarities between all three, but they are three different things.
We Catholics are already using our weapon…