Abortion and rape victims?


#1

My biggest problem with abortion is that people who are irresponsible, give into their lust and use it as a way to escape responsibility which is a big no no for me. In that case I think learning from your mistake instead of constantly terminating your pregnancies is something you learn from. So thats one reason I am against abortion.

My second reason is that while I have no intention of pre-marital sex at my age, if I did I just couldn’t imagine killing it. I feel awful that there are women out there who can’t have kids who want them badly and I have the chance to give them one. I’d much rather allow that baby to live with loving people who will take care of them better than I can. (Sorry if my grammar is a bit awkward its late) I hear how sad people are about terminating their children and I thats another reason I am against it.

I have several more reasons and i could write a book on why I am against abortion but I saw something. This video (youtube.com/watch?v=GQtN5JbmBrA) and it sort of made me think a little. haha thats sort of an understatement, but i did think a lot.

I wondered how I would feel to have someone watching me out my window. I get terrified just thinking about it right now. I would be just as horrified as she was. Then to get raped by the scary old man that was watching her I would be just as traumatized as her. Not to mention being pregnant with his child and getting chlamydia. Its one thing when you are fooling around with your guy friend but this is like a different story. A strange man who watches you change attacks you with a weapon and rapes you. I can only imagine how hard her life would be if she went with this pregnancy. The child of your attacker is growing inside you. Its sort of like the reverse virgin mary in a way.

If I have children I want to be married to a man that I love and thats how I want them to be brought into this world by the love of their mom and dad. It would kill me to have to bring a baby into the world like that. I would just think that it is my attacker inside me. When the baby is born my attacker will still be there and as a mother that would kill me.

I can’t imagine it being much better for the child either. If the child asks me who their father is I have three options 1) Say nothing 2) tell the truth 3) lie Quite frankly all of these have some sort of consequence. Often, lies have a bad habit of becoming truths and the child would resent me for lying when they discover the truth. The truth could crush the child knowing that a sick man raped his mother and that he wasn’t a planned baby. If that were me I would die on the inside. Saying nothing is just inviting the child to go find their father and theyd find him on the most wanted list or in prison. I could see this happening with adoption too.

Thats not to say that is the definite conclusion because I also believe that God makes things happen for a reason so maybe I was meant to a rape victim and have a child like that. Its cases like this that I really have no absolute answer. I am just wondering what you think :smiley: l am looking forward to some opinions :thumbsup:


#2

No one is born to be a rape victim, what kind of God would have that in mind for his child??

To conquer rape you must become rape.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


#3

Confusedgirl I also feel strongly about these issues of abortion. I agree that it must be harrowing ordeal to carry your rapists baby. It has something that has caused me pause for thought on more than one occasion. But here is the thing, I am training to be a psychologist at the moment and have been studying the effects abortions have on women. There haven't been many studies done but those in existence I have examined. In 2011 in the UK for example 98% of terminations were permitted under Class C. Class C means the patient is at high risk of developing mental health problems, so would include rape victims and features with fatal abnormalities. Ready for this: In 100% of cases the woman developed mental health problems anyway. That's 185,000 families affected. In most cases psychologists treating the women found that abortion was a contributing factor in their illness. That is just one study I know but I have also examined figures from Finland , Sweden, Germany, New Zealand, Australia and the US. The figures are astonishing. Universally, abortion was not efficacious in the slightest at treating the mental health problems caused by rape, and as daunting as it sounds the healthiest option for the woman mentally is actually to carry the child. This is one of the many reasons that I would not like to see abortion legal in Ireland. Our society is broken enough without foisting that abomination on vulnerable women and telling them it's the right thing to do for their sanity.
God Bless,
Meadhbh


#4

[quote="confusedgirl, post:1, topic:319243"]
My biggest problem with abortion is that people who are irresponsible, give into their lust and use it as a way to escape responsibility which is a big no no for me. In that case I think learning from your mistake instead of constantly terminating your pregnancies is something you learn from. So thats one reason I am against abortion.

My second reason is that while I have no intention of pre-marital sex at my age, if I did I just couldn't imagine killing it. I feel awful that there are women out there who can't have kids who want them badly and I have the chance to give them one. I'd much rather allow that baby to live with loving people who will take care of them better than I can. (Sorry if my grammar is a bit awkward its late) I hear how sad people are about terminating their children and I thats another reason I am against it.

I have several more reasons and i could write a book on why I am against abortion but I saw something. This video (youtube.com/watch?v=GQtN5JbmBrA) and it sort of made me think a little. haha thats sort of an understatement, but i did think a lot.

I wondered how I would feel to have someone watching me out my window. I get terrified just thinking about it right now. I would be just as horrified as she was. Then to get raped by the scary old man that was watching her I would be just as traumatized as her. Not to mention being pregnant with his child and getting chlamydia. Its one thing when you are fooling around with your guy friend but this is like a different story. A strange man who watches you change attacks you with a weapon and rapes you. I can only imagine how hard her life would be if she went with this pregnancy. The child of your attacker is growing inside you. Its sort of like the reverse virgin mary in a way.

If I have children I want to be married to a man that I love and thats how I want them to be brought into this world by the love of their mom and dad. It would kill me to have to bring a baby into the world like that. I would just think that it is my attacker inside me. When the baby is born my attacker will still be there and as a mother that would kill me.

I can't imagine it being much better for the child either. If the child asks me who their father is I have three options 1) Say nothing 2) tell the truth 3) lie Quite frankly all of these have some sort of consequence. Often, lies have a bad habit of becoming truths and the child would resent me for lying when they discover the truth. The truth could crush the child knowing that a sick man raped his mother and that he wasn't a planned baby. If that were me I would die on the inside. Saying nothing is just inviting the child to go find their father and theyd find him on the most wanted list or in prison. I could see this happening with adoption too.

Thats not to say that is the definite conclusion because I also believe that God makes things happen for a reason so maybe I was meant to a rape victim and have a child like that. Its cases like this that I really have no absolute answer. I am just wondering what you think :D l am looking forward to some opinions :thumbsup:

[/quote]

Incest or rape is no excuse for having an abortion. If a woman gets pregnant in either way, it is not the child's fault. If a woman cannot bear to raise a child borne of rape or incest, she can give the child up for adoption. I'm sure there are thousands of wonderful, loving couples who would be thrilled to adopt a child. Abortion does nothing but make an already bad situation even worse. You cannot remedy one evil act with another evil act. I remember reading many years ago about a nun who was raped and conceived from the rape. Her community pressured her to have an abortion. She refused. She was finally expelled from her community. She gave birth and the child was born with Down's syndrome. She said that her child was the light of her life and she never regretted having her baby and raising it. (I don't remember if the child was a girl or boy.)

To embrace an innocent child out of such an evil event to give it life takes great courage and love. The only way to remedy evil is to counteract it with goodness and love.


#5

[quote="confusedgirl, post:1, topic:319243"]
My biggest problem with abortion is that people who are irresponsible, give into their lust and use it as a way to escape responsibility which is a big no no for me. In that case I think learning from your mistake instead of constantly terminating your pregnancies is something you learn from. So thats one reason I am against abortion.

My second reason is that while I have no intention of pre-marital sex at my age, if I did I just couldn't imagine killing it. I feel awful that there are women out there who can't have kids who want them badly and I have the chance to give them one. I'd much rather allow that baby to live with loving people who will take care of them better than I can. (Sorry if my grammar is a bit awkward its late) I hear how sad people are about terminating their children and I thats another reason I am against it.

I have several more reasons and i could write a book on why I am against abortion but I saw something. This video (youtube.com/watch?v=GQtN5JbmBrA) and it sort of made me think a little. haha thats sort of an understatement, but i did think a lot.

I wondered how I would feel to have someone watching me out my window. I get terrified just thinking about it right now. I would be just as horrified as she was. Then to get raped by the scary old man that was watching her I would be just as traumatized as her. Not to mention being pregnant with his child and getting chlamydia. Its one thing when you are fooling around with your guy friend but this is like a different story. A strange man who watches you change attacks you with a weapon and rapes you. I can only imagine how hard her life would be if she went with this pregnancy. The child of your attacker is growing inside you. Its sort of like the reverse virgin mary in a way.

If I have children I want to be married to a man that I love and thats how I want them to be brought into this world by the love of their mom and dad. It would kill me to have to bring a baby into the world like that. I would just think that it is my attacker inside me. When the baby is born my attacker will still be there and as a mother that would kill me.

I can't imagine it being much better for the child either. If the child asks me who their father is I have three options 1) Say nothing 2) tell the truth 3) lie Quite frankly all of these have some sort of consequence. Often, lies have a bad habit of becoming truths and the child would resent me for lying when they discover the truth. The truth could crush the child knowing that a sick man raped his mother and that he wasn't a planned baby. If that were me I would die on the inside. Saying nothing is just inviting the child to go find their father and theyd find him on the most wanted list or in prison. I could see this happening with adoption too.

Thats not to say that is the definite conclusion because I also believe that God makes things happen for a reason so maybe I was meant to a rape victim and have a child like that. Its cases like this that I really have no absolute answer. I am just wondering what you think :D l am looking forward to some opinions :thumbsup:

[/quote]

[quote="confusedgirl, post:1, topic:319243"]
Thats not to say that is the definite conclusion because I also believe that God makes things happen for a reason so maybe I was meant to a rape victim and have a child like that.

[/quote]

Respectfully; I believe you should reconsider the idea when it comes to someone being a Victim of Rape or any difficult human suffering in life that ("God Permits") such thing to happen to any person. God doesn't deliberately set out in spite to cause human suffering or victimhood for any reason. A lot of people get confused with this situational misconception especially when they are ones caught in the mist of suffering or victimhood.

As for having compassion and heartfelt sadness for a women who is raped, there remaims innocent precious humanlife in her womb if conception succeeded. Nothing can ever remove that innocence.

Sadly; the human world is quick to fix and paint bias labels of judgment on situations like this when they themselves are not caught up in the victimhood and suffering.

We can greatly pray and hope in earnest what is best for the survival of the innocent life in the victimized woman's womb while making every effort to give her genuine compassionate support in finding her ways of coping with healing.

In Fraternal Peace
Chris


#6

For a long time, rape was the one exception I thought I could allow. But then I read somewhere, "It's not the child's fault. The child should not have to suffer the death penalty for what the father did." Is it better to die than to live a life with a skeleton in the closet? Not to disparage the pain of rape or knowing that you are the product of one, but I think we all have depressing secrets that we don't like living with. But Catholics value human life above almost everything else. Being alive, even if it is with pain or a dark secret, is better than being murdered. Thinking from the child's point of view, "my dad's a rapist, but my mom loved me enough to keep me." I'm sure it takes enormous courage and sacrifice for the mom to carry her rapist's child, but it is her child to. I think we need better support systems for women in those circumstances rather than just sending them to the abortionist.


#7

A few years ago there was a case of a girl, I think she was about 12, who conceived after being molested by her older brother. Although many people offered to adopt the baby, the parents took her out of state to have an abortion. The biggest reason I remember it was the fact that they brought her to Kansas. I can't remember which state they were from, but it had no provision for abortions. Even here, the were people, and groups, who offered help. I often wonder what happened to her afterwards. :( I hope that she finds healing and forgiveness.


#8

I think the issue is that many do not think of an unborn child as actually being human. They think of it more like an infection. Imagine it this way. What if a woman gave birth to a child, then killed it. When asked why, she would respond, "That child was the product of a rape." This does not justify the fact that she killed a human being. The child in the womb is no less human than a child already born. Society falsely makes a distinction between the two.


#9

[quote="centurionguard, post:5, topic:319243"]
Respectfully; I believe you should reconsider the idea when it comes to someone being a Victim of Rape or any difficult human suffering in life that ("God Permits") such thing to happen to any person. God doesn't deliberately set out in spite to cause human suffering or victimhood for any reason. A lot of people get confused with this situational misconception especially when they are ones caught in the mist of suffering or victimhood.

As for having compassion and heartfelt sadness for a women who is raped, there remaims innocent precious humanlife in her womb if conception succeeded. Nothing can ever remove that innocence.

Sadly; the human world is quick to fix and paint bias labels of judgment on situations like this when they themselves are not caught up in the victimhood and suffering.

We can greatly pray and hope in earnest what is best for the survival of the innocent life in the victimized woman's womb while making every effort to give her genuine compassionate support in finding her ways of coping with healing.

In Fraternal Peace
Chris

[/quote]

Allow me to clarify. I meant if she were to raise her child I believe children are a blessing so maybe if she was to keep her baby perhaps that's what God wanted. The idea of abortion frightens me but so does rape. I'd be scared if it happened to me


#10

"The feeling that members of one's own species deserve special moral consideration as compared with members of other species is old and deep. Killing people outside war is the most seriously-regarded crime ordinarily committed. The only thing more strongly forbidden by our culture is eating people (even if they are already dead). We enjoy eating members of other species, however. Many of us shrink from judicial execution of even the most horrible human criminals, while we cheerfully countenance the shooting without trial of farily mild animal pests. indeed we kill members of other harmless species as a means of recreation and amusement. A human foetus, with no more human feeling than an amoeba, enjoys a reverence and legal protection far in excess of those granted to an adult chimpanzee. Yet, the chimp feels and thinks and-according to recent experimental evidence-may even be capable of learning a form of human language. The foetus belongs to our own species, and is instantly accorded special priveleges and rights because of it. Whether the ethic of 'speciesism', to use Richard Ryder's term, can be put on a logical footing any more sound than that of 'racism', I do not know. What I do know is that it has no proper basis in evolutionary biology"
-Richard Dawkins


#11

[quote="Jesus_Jacked_It, post:10, topic:319243"]
"The feeling that members of one's own species deserve special moral consideration as compared with members of other species is old and deep. Killing people outside war is the most seriously-regarded crime ordinarily committed. The only thing more strongly forbidden by our culture is eating people (even if they are already dead). We enjoy eating members of other species, however. Many of us shrink from judicial execution of even the most horrible human criminals, while we cheerfully countenance the shooting without trial of farily mild animal pests. indeed we kill members of other harmless species as a means of recreation and amusement. A human foetus, with no more human feeling than an amoeba, enjoys a reverence and legal protection far in excess of those granted to an adult chimpanzee. Yet, the chimp feels and thinks and-according to recent experimental evidence-may even be capable of learning a form of human language. The foetus belongs to our own species, and is instantly accorded special priveleges and rights because of it. Whether the ethic of 'speciesism', to use Richard Ryder's term, can be put on a logical footing any more sound than that of 'racism', I do not know. What I do know is that it has no proper basis in evolutionary biology"
-Richard Dawkins

[/quote]

Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.


#12

[quote="lucymeadhbh, post:3, topic:319243"]
Confusedgirl I also feel strongly about these issues of abortion. I agree that it must be harrowing ordeal to carry your rapists baby. It has something that has caused me pause for thought on more than one occasion. But here is the thing, I am training to be a psychologist at the moment and have been studying the effects abortions have on women. There haven't been many studies done but those in existence I have examined. In 2011 in the UK for example 98% of terminations were permitted under Class C. Class C means the patient is at high risk of developing mental health problems, so would include rape victims and features with fatal abnormalities. Ready for this: In 100% of cases the woman developed mental health problems anyway. That's 185,000 families affected. In most cases psychologists treating the women found that abortion was a contributing factor in their illness. That is just one study I know but I have also examined figures from Finland , Sweden, Germany, New Zealand, Australia and the US. The figures are astonishing. Universally, abortion was not efficacious in the slightest at treating the mental health problems caused by rape, and as daunting as it sounds the healthiest option for the woman mentally is actually to carry the child. This is one of the many reasons that I would not like to see abortion legal in Ireland. Our society is broken enough without foisting that abomination on vulnerable women and telling them it's the right thing to do for their sanity.
God Bless,
Meadhbh

[/quote]

Lucy: I would highly recommend you visit this website: www.feministsforlife.org. You will find loads of research on the victimization of women through abortion. These ladies are TRUE feminists. Check them out. God bless you!

Sr. Terese


#13

[quote="BethanieRyan, post:6, topic:319243"]
For a long time, rape was the one exception I thought I could allow. But then I read somewhere, "It's not the child's fault. The child should not have to suffer the death penalty for what the father did." Is it better to die than to live a life with a skeleton in the closet? Not to disparage the pain of rape or knowing that you are the product of one, but I think we all have depressing secrets that we don't like living with. But Catholics value human life above almost everything else. Being alive, even if it is with pain or a dark secret, is better than being murdered. Thinking from the child's point of view, "my dad's a rapist, but my mom loved me enough to keep me." I'm sure it takes enormous courage and sacrifice for the mom to carry her rapist's child, but it is her child to. I think we need better support systems for women in those circumstances rather than just sending them to the abortionist.

[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. I want to bring attention to the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Crisis Pregnancy Centers around the country. These are not to be confused with abortion mills. These are organizations, generally staffed by volunteers and maintained by donations, who reach out to pregnant women who think their only alternative is abortion. These organizations provide, food, housing, medical care, education, clothing, baby items, counseling, therapy, and many, many more resources for the pregnant woman and her baby. They even can provide resources after the baby is born. They are all over the country in almost every city in the nation. There is also a women's organization called "Feminists For Life" who also realize that there are two victims in abortion: the baby and the mother. Their site provides enormous statistics on the reality of abortion upon women--much of which is covered up by the media. It is rather shocking. You can find them at: www.feministsforlife.org. You will be pleasantly surprised.


#14

I wish I were as sympathetic as you are. Most women seeking abortions know full well that what is in their womb isn’t a turnip, but a human baby. They have, however, been brainwashed to believe that “choice” is the ultimate freedom–when in fact, it is the ultimate form of slavery. If women truly want choice, then they need to start making those choices BEFORE another human being is involved. To make another human being pay the ultimate price for your own irresponsibility is the height of arrogance and contempt…


#15

[quote="confusedgirl, post:9, topic:319243"]
Allow me to clarify. I meant if she were to raise her child I believe children are a blessing so maybe if she was to keep her baby perhaps that's what God wanted. The idea of abortion frightens me but so does rape. I'd be scared if it happened to me

[/quote]

Rape is a horrible, barbaric, act of violence. No one is saying that you shouldn't fear it. But, to take the life of an innocent unborn child doesn't solve the problem. As I said, you cannot right an evil act by committing another evil act.


#16

Time for some disclosure about me.

My biological mother was 17 when she had twins, a boy and girl. (I’m the girl.) She got pregnant due to sexual abuse by her father.

Most people don’t know what it’s like to have people say, “You don’t deserve to be born,” or “it would have been better if the mother had an abortion.” That’s the kind of talk usually reserved for dictators and serial killers. I’ve had to listen to “pro-life” “catholics” tell me that they think abortion is wrong, except in cases of rape and incest. I’ve also had some tell me that I don’t belong in the church because of Deuteronomy 23:3 and that I’m damned to hell no matter what I do.

I had to sit in my freshman biology class when I was 14 and listen to 30 students and the teacher tell me that abortion is always preferable in cases of incest and then debate whether or not I should be sterilized so I don’t pass on birth defects or “rape” genes, whatever the hell those are. I was blamed for the death of my biological mother because she OD’d and obviously it was my fault for being born.

But you know what? I have just as much right to exist as you or anyone. Has my life been tough? Yes, but it’s MINE and I have every right to it. I don’t have to justify it to you to or anyone. I am NOT my biological father. I am not an attacker. I didn’t rape anyone.


#17

[quote="pollynova, post:16, topic:319243"]
Time for some disclosure about me.

My biological mother was 17 when she had twins, a boy and girl. (I'm the girl.) She got pregnant due to sexual abuse by her father.

Most people don't know what it's like to have people say, "You don't deserve to be born," or "it would have been better if the mother had an abortion." That's the kind of talk usually reserved for dictators and serial killers. I've had to listen to "pro-life" "catholics" tell me that they think abortion is wrong, except in cases of rape and incest. I've also had some tell me that I don't belong in the church because of Deuteronomy 23:3 and that I'm damned to hell no matter what I do.

I had to sit in my freshman biology class when I was 14 and listen to 30 students and the teacher tell me that abortion is always preferable in cases of incest and then debate whether or not I should be sterilized so I don't pass on birth defects or "rape" genes, whatever the hell those are. I was blamed for the death of my biological mother because she OD'd and obviously it was my fault for being born.

But you know what? I have just as much right to exist as you or anyone. Has my life been tough? Yes, but it's MINE and I have every right to it. I don't have to justify it to you to or anyone. I am NOT my biological father. I am not an attacker. I didn't rape anyone.

[/quote]

Beautifully stated. You are the voice for all the unborn who are unable to speak for themselves.


#18

The glib answer is: 'we don't punish the rapist with capital punishment, why should we punish an innocent child with it?'.

The more thoughtful answer is that we make an extreme mistake when we pit the powerless versus the even more powerless. We have to find a way to defend both. Compassion for the mother should not come at expense of compassion for the child nor the reverse. Neither life is more important or more sacred than the other.

As a bleeding heart liberal, nothing is more sad to me than when we try to protect one group by destroying another. Not that I am so silly as to think that all we need to do is sing Kumbaya and we will all get along. But the very least we can do is have compassion for everyone.

I wish I knew how to express compassion for both simultaneously and how to fix situations like these so that we can protect BOTH with ferocity and compassion.


#19

Suppose a husband and wife have sexual relations. God forbid, a few days later the wife is raped. They go to the doctor to have a paternity test to find out if the child is the rapist's and whether to have an abortion. The tests come back and it is her husband's child. She gives birth. One day, they get a call from the doctor's office and they say, "We are sorry, but we made a terrible mistake. Your child is actually the rapist's." The child is three months old, healthy and sleeping in the crib. Should that woman be allowed to kill that three month old?


#20

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