Abortion for rape victims


#1

I have asked this question to "ask an apologist" forum. But They did not reply me. So I have decided to discuss here.As far I know Roman Catholic Church is pro life and it considers that life begins with fertilization.

Anyway What is the scientific proof of it? What Eastern orthodox Churches teaches about it? Are rape victims allowed to abortion before fetal stage, or not? If not then what would happen if a married women is rape victim,or a child?

Why they must carry the lifeless fertile ovum( scientific), and then make it a real baby? And for married women, why husbands will accept it? And after all before fetal stage , even it does not kick, so how is it possible that life begins with fertilization?


#2

[quote="rain_bow, post:1, topic:258320"]
Why they must carry the lifeless fertile ovum( scientific), and then make it a real baby?

[/quote]

What do women do that turns the lifeless ovum into a real baby?


#3

[quote="Stephen168, post:2, topic:258320"]
What do women do that turns the lifeless ovum into a real baby?

[/quote]

Do not answer my question with another question please.
read it


#4

[quote="rain_bow, post:1, topic:258320"]
As far I know Roman Catholic Church is pro life and it considers that life begins with fertilization.

Anyway What is the scientific proof of it?

[/quote]

The first sperm to fully penetrate the ovum donates its genetic material. At this point, the ovum becomes a zygote, about which the following statements are objectively true:

1) It is a genetically unique organism.

2) It is a self-directing organism.

3) It is a member of the genus Homo and species sapien.

Now, how else would you describe a genetically unique, self-directing organism that is a member of the human species, if not "alive?"


#5

Scientific proof exists. And electrosound proves it immediatly...life is life. Watch the EWTN show on abortion which is basically a show by Dr Martin Luther Kings family here, promoted by the CC. There's going to be a very big problem with this, this coming election. Of course life begins by fert. how else would you imagine it happens?

Who's deciding human rights? Planned parenthood founder stated she wanted to kill the weeds. Hitler stated he wanted to kill life not worthy of life. Sounds the same to me, how about you? What man has this right? I say None.

If you place yourself in a difficult situation, you placed yourself in it. Killing isn't the solution out of bad choice. The Church is where your advised to go. not the non-planning or parenthood facility. Its a Death Camp. The Church will correctly intercede help you and you do not have to ever see that baby again in your life. Your choice of death however, is an incorrect one. And by the laws of this society from Salvery laws to Roe vs Wade we don't have it right at the moment. We will within the next year and half, the Storm, its coming, its in the air today, I can feel it.

Speaking when its down to life and death of the mother or baby. They save the mother. Its how its goes down, is its right, I don't know, I don't place myself in that choice.


#6

You have a lot here right now. You may want to break the questions into separate threads, or look around at CAF. I am not the best at pro-life apologicts, but I will try my hand here.

As far I know Roman Catholic Church is pro life and it considers that life begins with fertilization.

Yes. The Catholic Church is pro-life. From conception till natural death. (see the CCC)

Anyway What is the scientific proof of it?

Here is a link that describes fetal development.
From the moment of conception, the baby has its own unique DNA, and immediately begins to divide cells. By week 3 of gestation, the heart, brain and spinal cord are formed. And soon after the heart begins to beat.

So here we have a creature with its own DNA, its own heart-beat, and by week 5, cranial nerves are present. This creature is living. Its DNA is human. It is a living, and growing human.

What Eastern orthodox Churches teaches about it?

I am not Eastern Orthodox. So I do not know exactly.

Are rape victims allowed to abortion before fetal stage, or not?

No. Abortion for any reason is wrong. Yes the woman who has been raped is a victim, and more than likely does not want to carry the baby that resulted from their trauma to term. But, the child is an innocent human being. Why would anyone kill an innocent human for the crime of their father?

If not then what would happen if a married women is rape victim,or a child?

They would carry the child to term, and either raise the child themselves with their husband/parents, or place the child up for adoption.

Why they must carry the lifeless fertile ovum( scientific), and then make it a real baby?

Because there is no reason to kill a child for the crime of the father.

And for married women, why husbands will accept it?

It all depends on the husband and wife. If the man truly loves his wife, he will help her heal from her rape, and then each couple will decide to either keep the child, or place it up for adoption.

And after all before fetal stage , even it does not kick, so how is it possible that life begins with fertilization?

I don't know what you mean by this. Around week 5, babies do begin to move, and during week 6, the hands of the baby move. The child is now 1 1/2 months along. By this time, a woman would have missed her period. This means, that between now and 12-13 weeks, most abortions are performed.

Here also is a great video that puts a good perspective on abortion.

I hope I could be of help.

In Christ through Mary,
Nevermore


#7

[quote="rain_bow, post:3, topic:258320"]
Do not answer my question with another question please.
read it

[/quote]

The ovum NEVER becomes a baby and it is God who makes women carry the lifeless ovum. I think you need to re-read your link until you understand it, then you will know scientifically when human life begins.


#8

[quote="rain_bow, post:1, topic:258320"]
I have asked this question to "ask an apologist" forum. But They did not reply me. So I have decided to discuss here.As far I know Roman Catholic Church is pro life and it considers that life begins with fertilization.

Anyway What is the scientific proof of it? What Eastern orthodox Churches teaches about it? Are rape victims allowed to abortion before fetal stage, or not? If not then what would happen if a married women is rape victim,or a child?

Why they must carry the lifeless fertile ovum( scientific), and then make it a real baby? And for married women, why husbands will accept it? And after all before fetal stage , even it does not kick, so how is it possible that life begins with fertilization?

[/quote]

Modern genetics and embryology have PROVEN that the unborn entity is a living, unique genetic member of Homo sapiens from the moment of conception. And even before we had modern science to establish this fact, we have a thing called Logic that allowed us to determine that the unborn entity can be nothing OTHER than a living, developing member of our species. Personhood is an unalienable, pre-political right, tied directly to our "nature" - our status AS members of homo sapiens. The unborn entity is fully human and therefore MUST be a legally-protected person. Personhood should not be determined on a functionalist basis.


#9

[quote="rain_bow, post:1, topic:258320"]
I have asked this question to "ask an apologist" forum. But They did not reply me. So I have decided to discuss here.As far I know Roman Catholic Church is pro life and it considers that life begins with fertilization.

Anyway What is the scientific proof of it? What Eastern orthodox Churches teaches about it? Are rape victims allowed to abortion before fetal stage, or not? If not then what would happen if a married women is rape victim,or a child?

Why they must carry the lifeless fertile ovum( scientific), and then make it a real baby? And for married women, why husbands will accept it? And after all before fetal stage , even it does not kick, so how is it possible that life begins with fertilization?

[/quote]

Every Biology book I posses "over sixty" states that "FERTILISATION" is initiated as soon as the Sperm makes contact with the eggs surface. By the time the Sperm is inside the egg life has already begun! Amazing and wonderful.:)


#10

[quote="Crdl2Grv, post:4, topic:258320"]
The first sperm to fully penetrate the ovum donates its genetic material. At this point, the ovum becomes a zygote, about which the following statements are objectively true:

1) It is a genetically unique organism.

2) It is a self-directing organism.

3) It is a member of the genus Homo and species sapien.

Now, how else would you describe a genetically unique, self-directing organism that is a member of the human species, if not "alive?"

[/quote]

This is it exactly. There is only one objective point at which to determine the starting point for an individual's life and this is it (you may get an argument about the genetically unique... identical twins; so it might be better to say genetically complete). Any other point (e.g. viability outside the womb) is purely arbitrary and not based on any scientific reality.


#11

[quote="Stephen168, post:7, topic:258320"]
The ovum NEVER becomes a baby and it is God who makes women carry the lifeless ovum. I think you need to re-read your link until you understand it, then you will know scientifically when human life begins.

[/quote]

I think I must answer other posters after some times. But I am giving my answer to you. Whom do you call a human being?That can not move, can not survive outside womb? Well if GOD who makes women carry the ovum then why the almighty God needs a woman's womb? why can not he make this zygote survive outside womb? and what type of God give life instantly when a woman raped brutally? would you explain it? in fact what is life? can you show me the life? can you prove the existence of so called life?Ask almighty God to make the zygote survive outside womb.Even a fertile ovum can be the cause of pregnancy before implantation? so how is it so called life? And a parasite can not be a human being.It is only a human being when it can survive outside womb. And what if you want to safe a mother's life? will you not suggest abortion? Then who gave you the right to kill a life( fetus) to save another life(mother)?


#12

[quote="kubark, post:8, topic:258320"]
Modern genetics and embryology have PROVEN that the unborn entity is a living, unique genetic member of Homo sapiens from the moment of conception. And even before we had modern science to establish this fact, we have a thing called Logic that allowed us to determine that the unborn entity can be nothing OTHER than a living, developing member of our species. Personhood is an unalienable, pre-political right, tied directly to our "nature" - our status AS members of homo sapiens. The unborn entity is fully human and therefore MUST be a legally-protected person. Personhood should not be determined on a functionalist basis.

[/quote]

Homo Sapiens? The embryonic stem cells that scientist want to use are not embryos taken from the womb of a woman. They are female eggs that have been fertilized in a Petri dish. The import of this is that the fertilized egg will never become a human unless and until it is implanted in a woman’s womb. So, without the intervention of a doctor, none of these embryos will ever be humans.


#13

[quote="rain_bow, post:1, topic:258320"]
I have asked this question to "ask an apologist" forum. But They did not reply me. So I have decided to discuss here.As far I know Roman Catholic Church is pro life and it considers that life begins with fertilization.

Anyway What is the scientific proof of it? What Eastern orthodox Churches teaches about it? Are rape victims allowed to abortion before fetal stage, or not? If not then what would happen if a married women is rape victim,or a child?

Why they must carry the lifeless fertile ovum( scientific), and then make it a real baby? And for married women, why husbands will accept it? And after all before fetal stage , even it does not kick, so how is it possible that life begins with fertilization?

[/quote]

Similar threads like this have cropped up frequently about this topic.
No insensitivity towards the Rape Victim but the Catholic Church says unequivocally NO female Catholic rape victims cannot abort. The sanctity of all human life is priceless. Thou Shalt Not Kill.


#14

[quote="rain_bow, post:11, topic:258320"]
I think I must answer other posters after some times. But I am giving my answer to you.

[/quote]

OK, What is the answer?


#15

[quote="rain_bow, post:11, topic:258320"]
Well if GOD who makes women carry the ovum then why the almighty God needs a woman's womb?

[/quote]

Did you walk to school or carry your books?


#16

scientific source


#17

As someone who was conceived in rape, I'm sure glad no one killed me.


#18

why punish the baby for the crime of the FATHER?

Also, not every woman who is raped will become pregnant

and less than 1% of abortions are for rape/incest

Science has been studying human development for years and the fetal heartbeat begins around 18-21 days. Brain waves are detectable at 40 days.

Human life is valuable, even if its created from a horrible act such as rape or incest.


#19

[quote="jediliz, post:18, topic:258320"]

Human life is valuable, even if its created from a horrible act such as rape or incest.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:

Even when I wasn't really religious in my younger days, I was still pro-life 100 percent. Now, I'm much more active in my religion, and I'm STILL 100 percent pro-life!


#20

[quote="rain_bow, post:11, topic:258320"]
I think I must answer other posters after some times. But I am giving my answer to you. Whom do you call a human being?That can not move, can not survive outside womb? Well if GOD who makes women carry the ovum then why the almighty God needs a woman's womb? why can not he make this zygote survive outside womb? and what type of God give life instantly when a woman raped brutally? would you explain it? in fact what is life? can you show me the life? can you prove the existence of so called life?Ask almighty God to make the zygote survive outside womb.Even a fertile ovum can be the cause of pregnancy before implantation? so how is it so called life? And a parasite can not be a human being.It is only a human being when it can survive outside womb. And what if you want to safe a mother's life? will you not suggest abortion? Then who gave you the right to kill a life( fetus) to save another life(mother)?

[/quote]

A human being is a being that belongs to the human species, and is genetically complete. This happens almost immediately at conception. It's got nothing to do whether it can survive outside the womb or not. A newborn still cannot survive without its mother regardless of whether it is outside the womb or not. But it is still a human being. And just before it is born, it is alive, it can feel, it can hear, it can move.

But that's moot. Being able to hear, feel and move is not what makes it a living human being. Having the entire genetic composition that it will carry until the day it dies, makes a zygote a complete and full member of the human species, a genetically complete individual, with genetics that will determine whether how tall it will become, what colour its hair and eyes will be, what natural talents it will have etc. All of that is set in stone at the moment of conception, or just a few moments after conception.

And that's just basic science. What you are saying isn't science. It is an arbitrary choice built entirely upon emotion, not upon reason, a faculty which BTW God gave us and expects us to use so that we don't let our emotions get the better of us.

I suggest you also read a bit about the theology of the Fall of Mankind. That may answer your questions regarding why God "allows" things to happen. God gave Man free will. Since the Fall, all men and women have misused it to some extent or other.


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