A question for pro-lifers on the forum. A former Facebook friend of mine eventually confronted me about my constant pro-life posts on my wall. She said that since I believe God has a plan for everyone, couldn’t an abortionist be carrying out that plan? I angrily dropped her (well first, I privately chewed her out.) without really giving her an answer. I’m sure someone else will tell me this. What would you suggest as a response. The main reason I didn’t give an answer was that I was too angry to think civilly.
She is right that God has a plan for everyone. However, it is His plan, not simply whatever anyone wants it to be!
Since murdering innocent humans flies in the face of any guidance we have ever received from God (Scripture, 2,000 years of Church teachings, etc.) we can be certain that abortion is emphatically not part of His plan for anyone.
EDIT: I would also add that in these days we must take GREAT pains to maintain charity. ‘Chewing her out’ without providing a substantial rebuttal was probably not the best route. It is extremely difficult to be charitable, especially in the face of such vitriol and obnoxiousness as we often see. However, by the nature and difficulty of this challenge, we can be sure that it is from God and that He will provide us the grace to do so. Resorting to the other side’s tactics will make them at best dismiss us and at worst discredit our entire movement.
Your friend is confused about God’s will. God’s directive will, also called His sovereign will, is always for the good. Abortion is evil and can never be willed directly by God. But because God gave us free will, there is also God’s permissive will. Through our free will, man sometimes makes bad - even evil - choices. God permits evil in the world but never directly wills it.
Just like Corki says, there is a huge gap between what god wills and what we end up doing. all evil acts that are perpetuated by a free creature are that own createures responsibility. God allows the evil to occur because in doing to he also allows good things. So in order for there to be good then there must also be evil.
Actually this is one of the major logical fallicies of our time. Things are attributed to God which he has nothing to do with.
God never desires evil. God knows the future and plans for whatever it may be, so He has planned for whatever abortions we freely choose to commit, but this in no way legitimizes the abortions:
God plans for what we choose to do, but we make the choice. Should we choose not to do evil, God will have planned for that - so in the sense that she used the phrase, anything at all would be part of God’s plan, whether good or bad, and being part of God’s plan would be irrelevant.
What God plans for is not necessarily God’s will, in the same way that a parent may plan for what to do when their child disobeys without desiring that the child disobey.
In fact, this might be a good analogy for the distinction between the two ways the phrase “God’s plan” is used. A parent’s plan for his small child may be that they sit down, eat a nice dinner including vegetables and a reasonable desert, then play for a while and go to bed. However, that parent, not having been born yesterday, knows that this won’t always happen and so plans that when the child pitches a fit and refuses to eat his vegetables, that child gets no desert and goes to bed early.
When we say we are following God’s plan, we usually mean the first kind - trying to follow God’s will (which is a phrase that I think is more accurate). There is nothing praiseworthy about participating in the equivalent of God’s plan to send us to bed without dinner as the child who wouldn’t stop fussing.
God allows evil and foreknows what people will do. But that does not make evil part of God’s plan. If your friend had read the basic writings of Thomas Aquinas on the topic of good and evil and of God’s nature, he would understand that evildoers are such because they are not doing God’s will and not carrying out God’s plan, but God ultimately will take all evils and make something good derive from them. This was seen especially on Calvary, when from the greatest evil - the death of the man-God and Son of God - came forth the greatest good - redemption of mankind. Thus we say that “by His death he defeated death and by His resurrection He restored life”. This will always be true, so that the words of the Scripture may be fulfilled:
They spread a net for my feet-- I was bowed down in distress. They dug a pit in my path-- but they have fallen into it themselves.
To not give an answer is a valid answer. Before those who did not or would have not understood, Christ kept silent. If you feel very passionate, it is good to step back and only act after the passions have calmed down and the peace of Christ is with you.
I am certain that God has a plan for everyone, including an abortionist.
I am also certain that abortion is NOT what God had in mind for that person.
We are free to say “yes” or “no” to God’s plan at any time.
“The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
Anger is very understandable. God does not will life to begin then will someone to ripe it apart in an abortion before the life is even born. This is type of thinking comes about when someone’s brain is disconnected. That’s would be a simple answer to total stupidity.
God does have a plan for us. It’s us that choose to follow it or not.
Sometimes, someone’s reasoning and thinking is so far gone that maybe the very best answer is stating that I will pray for you to be enlighten by truth. It says in Proverbs, “don’t answer a fool according to his folly”. Obviously this is folly and even the most reasoned answer or even an angry pithy crack won’t make a dent in someone who thinks like this.
Offering them up in prayer is probably the best way even if what they say or think lacks any intelligence or logic at all.
Are Mafia boss, rapist, arsonist, drug lord, embezzler, and bank robber also job descriptions in God’s plan for people?
Murderer isn’t either. That’s what an abortionist is.
God has a plan for abortionists who persist in abortion, too, and if they saw it, they might think differently. :mad:
Kermit Gosnell, the Philadelphia doctor recently convicted of first-degree murder in the deaths of three babies born alive, then stabbed with scissors, was given two life sentences. Although he feels he is innocent, he is fortunate to be getting a foretaste of God’s plan for those who persist in abortion. We can only hope doctor Gosnell has a change of heart regarding the atrocities he committed. God’s plan is for repentance, forgiveness, reparation and new life.
This is so true! Even devout Catholics involved in parish activities have flippantly proclaimed that God has a plan for us, and everything that happens is His will." I usually don’t respond because they’re so sure of themselves and they expect people to defer to them. One time I had an opportunity to approach someone a few days after she said something similar. I gently told her I’d like to address something she said to several people, and I very briefly stated what we’re to believe about God’s will. She became snippy and cold, and said I should read the Catechism (which I’ve done, lol).
God didn’t create anyone to do evil – you know, that thought has helped to sustain me when, feeling so frustrated with so much selfishness and evil in the world and people’s indifference to it, I’ve been tempted to allow despair rob me of hope.
Well, only if we believe that, no matter what a person did, it was God’s plan, as if He was responsible for every act-and the concept of free will, with it’s abuse resulting in sin, is totally fallacious. IOW, by your friend’s logic God would also be directly responsible for all rape, genocide, torture, etc.
Just my two cents, as someone raised very, very liberal and pro-choice:
Was she asking a sincere question? This might be a lovely opportunity to provide some gentle guidance. Lord knows I had plenty of patient, kind folks along the way… and here I am! My mother went through a long period of Paganism/Wicca and my sister is evangelical Protestant and I’m (trying!) to join the RCC. And we’re both vehemently pro-life!
Maybe apologize for your hastiness and start over. Asking questions sounds like a sub-conscious desire to hear your side and learn more.