Abortion in New Zealand

Hello!

I just found out that our pro abortion Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and our very pro abortion government is going to pass a law allowing almost all abortions.

This has been a long time in the making and is an absolute tragedy.

I can only pray that somehow it will not go ahead.

Please pray for the situation here.

God Bless.

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Indeed, prayers are much needed.

https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/proposed-abortion-legislation

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They certainly are.

Terrifying.
I’ll be praying.

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I have met Ardern. She is so friendly! But I cannot respect her abortion views. They make me so angry.

She is out to ruin all that I love about my country.

She appears to be a very charismatic progressive socialist, which is a worrying combination. I sense a strong determination to effect change also, which may take precedence over democratic ideals.

So true. She is a self proclaimed socialist. And she got pregnant out of wedlock and gave birth in office.

Like I pointed out in a reply to some of your comments on another thread, socialism isn’t necessary incompatible with Christianity. There are also valid Christian critiques of some forms of capitalism. I don’t know about the NZ Labour Party, but the UK Labour Party very much grew out of Protestant non-conformism. In fact, there is a well known saying that the Labour Party owed more to Methodism than to Marxism. I’m not saying that Christians should support Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, or Maoism. But mainstream left-of-centre parties in the western world do not pursue economic policies that are incompatible with Christianity. I’m not saying that Catholics have to be socialists, but you can’t just use the word “socialist” as if it means “bad person”.

Well, I’m not going to recommend that as a positive lifestyle choice and say that it’s compatible with the Church’s teaching on marriage and the family, but your comment just comes over as way too judgemental and uncharitable. Please remember that shaming unmarried mothers wasn’t cool when Catholics were doing it in Ireland in the 1950s and it certainly isn’t cool when Catholics are doing it today.

You wanted her to resign in order to give birth?

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And Stalinism is compatible with Christianity?

I assume you live in Liverpool? My family is originally from England.

Living in a country that pulled the “right” to abortion out of thin air (see Roe V. Wade), New Zealand most certainly does have my prayers. Lord Jesus, have mercy.

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Today at school I was treated as a bigoted aggressor for opposing the new law on abortion :weary:

I’ve been called worse things. But, as a Christian, you should expect it.Matthew 5:11

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And we can confidentially expect the number of abortions to continue to reduce; its just they will be regulated under health law, not criminal law.

Here is the bill itself: http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2019/0164/latest/d10592028e2.html

And the first debate:

https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand

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As you are not in New Zealand, you may not presume to know what is best for my country.

The abortions will not be reduced. This is pro-choice rhetoric with no evidence.

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“No Catholic could subscribe even to moderate socialism”
-Pope St John XXIII, Encyclical Mater et Magistra , May 15, 1961, n. 34

The Church’s criticism of Capitalism is in how it is practiced, while Socialism is not merely unworkable in practice, but wrong in principle as it denies the right to own and acquire private property. It’s atheist roots and support for abortion, euthanasia and gender ideology could be thrown in with that.

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Could you clarify? Do you believe the number of abortions is likely to reduce under the proposed reforms?

Couldn’t disagree with you more on this. Socialism is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity and one of its primary adversaries. Many Popes have written in detail on it.

“Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism… Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production, it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority.”

Pope John XXIII (Mater et Magistra)

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Yes. The New Zealand system at present allows access to abortion before 20 weeks effectively on request but requires women to jump through hoops such as having to talk to two certifying consultants in addition to their own doctor. This undermines normal communication between women and their health providers and breaks down trust. Abortion numbers are already trending down, probably because of better contraceptive usage. Better relationships between doctors and their primary health providers will increase this trend. If you want an abortion in New Zealand now you can get one, so the inevitable increase as a result of easier access will be small and more than offset by better health practice. (I know Catholics see this as bad, not good, but I’m just explaining my sums)

None of that logically connects at all. If you contend that abortion is tracking down because of contraception, doctor-patient trust in relation to abortion access has no bearing on reducing the number of abortions.

It’s far more likely that easier access will increase the number of abortions, especially given providers are likely to commence marketing and profiting from their provision.

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