abortion question

Can a Catholic ever, in good conscience, justify voting for a politician that openly supports legislation that allows abortion?

I would say not even if that indicates the lesser of two evils between the candidates. Abortion is intrinsically evil and can never be justified. I’m sure there are others here with more official stances but I would not vote for that politician under any circumstance even if it means not voting at all.

Ah, I suppose…if both candidates were for abortion, and you were to vote for the lesser of the two evils…the least evil candidate of those only two evil options…in that case, I think that would be the best one could possibly could do under those particular circumstances.

Outside of that kind of hypothetical situation, we need to vote prolife.

Only if the opposing candidate supports genocide as well as abortion.

No.

No.

No.

Nope!

There is no dogma of the Church I am aware of that says temporal authorities (eg Catholic politicians/voters) must 100% map Church Moral Teaching re all grave sins (ie Canon Law) into their Nation’s Law without question.
To believe so is prob to make much the same uncritical assumptions that righteous Muslims make when trying to impose Shariah (their equivalent of Canon Law) in countries where they are influential.
In fact ancient Church Teaching on this matter suggests there are often good practical reasons why it is better (though regretably so) for a Nation not to criminalise all grave sins.

Hence Aquinas and other heavy weight theologians of the past would not immediately throw out your question as others are trying to do here. they would say it is a matter of prudential judgement not of unassailable Dogma.

For example, Prostitution.
Aquinas and Augustine both accepted there may be reasonable cases for not having it criminalised by the State.
Abortion may well be starting to get beyond the pale in an allegedly Christian country - however it is still, as you imply, still a matter of prudential judgement by the Catholic politicians concerned.

As for voting by Catholics, ditto.

Georgemiller #1
Can a Catholic ever, in good conscience, justify voting for a politician that openly supports legislation that allows abortion?

**Answer by Fr.Stephen F. Torraco on 03-11-2002:
A BRIEF CATECHISM FOR CATHOLIC VOTERS
Fr. Stephen F. Torraco, Ph.D.**Extract:
“If a political candidate supported abortion, or any other moral evil, such as assisted suicide and euthanasia, for that matter, it would not be morally permissible for you to vote for that person. This is because, in voting for such a person, you would become an accomplice in the moral evil at issue. For this reason, moral evils such as abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide are examples of a “disqualifying issue.” A disqualifying issue is one which is of such gravity and importance that it allows for no political maneuvering. It is an issue that strikes at the heart of the human person and is non-negotiable. A disqualifying issue is one of such enormity that by itself renders a candidate for office unacceptable regardless of his position on other matters. You must sacrifice your feelings on other issues because you know that you cannot participate in any way in an approval of a violent and evil violation of basic human rights. A candidate for office who supports abortion rights or any other moral evil has disqualified himself as a person that you can vote for.”
tinyurl.com/kowdqhx

According to the Catholic Church, abortion can be justified in one way that I know of.

We understand that the only time(s) that we are allowed to take another human life is to protect the innocent. Not only that, but sometimes we often have a moral obligation to do so.

We also take into consideration the law of Double Effect. With every action, there is an intended consequence, and an unintended consequence.

If the case was that a pregnant woman was having complications to the point where if she continued to carry and give birth to this baby, that the woman herself would die (such as a cyst in the ovaries. Just an example), she would be justified by having an abortion.

Her intention was to protect the innocent, in this case, herself. The intended consequence of the abortion would to save her own life, but the unintended consequence was that it was at the cost of the baby’s life.

Gospel of Chaos #9
If the case was that a pregnant woman was having complications to the point where if she continued to carry and give birth to this baby, that the woman herself would die (such as a cyst in the ovaries. Just an example), she would be justified by having an abortion.

No, abortion is never, ever allowed.

EVANGELIUM VITAE
From #62:

“Given such unanimity in the doctrinal and disciplinary tradition of the Church, Paul VI was able to declare that this tradition is unchanged and unchangeable. 72 Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his Successors, in communion with the Bishops-who on various occasions have condemned abortion and who in the aforementioned consultation, albeit dispersed throughout the world, have shown unanimous agreement concerning this doctrine – I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written Word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s Tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. 73

**“No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.” **[My emphases].
IOANNES PAULUS PP. II
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html

**Life of mother and child (EWTN)
Question from on 06-04-2012: **
Hi Judie, What should a pregnant woman do if her life is in imminent danger and the baby is not old enough to survive outside the womb if it is delivered early? (Assume there are no medical procedures available that can save both mother and child). Since one can never do evil (abortion), so good can result (saving the life of the mother), is the mother supposed to die along with the child? If a woman chooses not to have an abortion because it is against her Catholic faith (and includes penalty of excommunication), would she be considered a martyr in a way because she died for the Faith? I would greatly appreciate some clarity on this topic based on Catholic teaching. I pray that abortion will be banned all over the world.

Answer by Judie Brown on 06-05-2012:
Dear Anonymous
This situation, according to many doctors, cannot occur in the modern practice of medicine. The ethical doctor will take all the measures he can to preserve both of his patients. He will not intend to kill either of them. Sadly there are times when the baby dies anyway but this is a sad outcome that is unexpected, not an intentional result. [My emphasis].
tinyurl.com/l6g3hmf

Can you show me where I am flawed in what I have said? The information that I posted comes from a Catholic Priest of 24 years.

Gospel of Chaos #9
According to the Catholic Church, abortion can be justified in one way that I know of.
#11
Can you show me where I am flawed in what I have said? The information that I posted comes from a Catholic Priest of 24 years.

To repeat the Supreme Vicar of Christ:
**EVANGELIUM VITAE
From #62:
“I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written Word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s Tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. 73

“No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.” [My emphases].
IOANNES PAULUS PP. II**
Note:
73 Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium, 25.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html

Catholics assent to, explain and defend the teaching of Christ’s Supreme Vicar, as above, in this case Bl John Paul II quoting Pope Paul VI.

Catholics know that a priest or even a bishop may be misunderstood or be incorrect in explaining the teaching of the Church, and that does also apply to posters who do not quote the Magisterium specifically on the point at issue.

Thank God this extreme personal position isn’t supported by the Catechism.

Your Catholic Priest of 24 years is in grave error. Abortion is intrinsically evil; even if it means the placing in jeopardy the life of the mother.

An ectopic pregnancy is an accurate description of the principle of double effect, not what you sited. When a pregnancy is ectopic, the zygote is implanted in the tube. The therefore there is no direct abortion. The tube is removed and the indirect result will be that the implanted fetus will die.

There are no options for ending a pregnancy to save the life of a mother, excluding an ectopic pregnancy.

Fr. Serpa disagrees with you.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=728672

Support of an intrinsic evil disqualifies a candidate, unless the opposition holds to the same level of belief of the same evil. In other words, if both candidates are equal on abortion, then you move to the next issue. If one is pro-abortion as the current President, and the opponent is against all abortion then their is no option to vote for the President without sin, if the person’s conscience is completely and properly formed.

If the challenger is against abortion except in rape, incest, and life of the mother, then the lesser of two evils argument comes in.

To make this simple, Nancy Pelosi runs for President against Rick Santorum; it would be sinful to vote for Nancy P. Now there may be some lesser degree of culpability if a persons conscience is not fully or properly formed, but it is against Church teachings none the less.

The qualifier “supports legislation that allows abortion” covers a wide range of possibilities. First of all, there are very few instances where a law is passed that specifically allows abortion. Much more common is the case where a politician does not support legislation that opposes abortion. Hardly anyone supports abortion in the positive sense. But some may still decline to oppose abortion in specific ways. The Church does not list which politicians are “too supportive” of abortion. But some people claim that a politician who expresses a criticism of a law that opposes abortion is automatically disqualified from consideration. This kind of decision can only be made by each person for himself.

In the last election I had the choice of voting between the “Planned Parenthood President” and the 'Mormon Cult" candidate who wanted to privatize social security.

I kept it simple, I did not vote.

So what :shrug:?
He represents but one camp on this matter and is certainly entitled to his opinion.
I prefer to go with the arguments mounted by Aquinas and Augustine and supported by Moral Theologians who may well be less vocal than Fr Serpa or Jimmy Akin.

Now if you can find clear, simple Magisterial Statements that support the thesis you are presenting I would be interested.

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