About Gay rights


#1

Where does it say in the Bible that Gay rights such as Gay marriage and Gay intercourse is wrong?


#2

[quote="Guy355, post:1, topic:328115"]
Where does it say in the Bible that Gay rights such as Gay marriage and Gay intercourse is wrong?

[/quote]

1) Where does it say in the Bible that everything we are to believe must be stated in the Bible? I'll save you the time looking - it doesn't say it anywhere. Your question thus has a hidden false premise.

2) The Bible clearly describes marriage as being between a man and a woman in such places as Genesis 1:26 - 28 in the OT and Mark 10:6 in the NT. These passages show that humans are created in two complementary sexes for the purpose of marriage.

Genesis 1:26-28

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,a and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

So God created mankind in his own image,

in the image of God he created them;

**male and female **he created them.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number

Mark 10:6-12

But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”


#3

Scary part is, if you don’t need a reference to feel that it’s wrong, you’re even more offended by a need of a reference. Chuck the bible if you want.

There is a mass of human history, without reference to any Divine intelligence, that has placed a value on heterosexual relations and man-and-woman marriage. There is no opposing counter-part, OR WE WOULD BE ARGUING THE OTHER WAY. No one, N O O N E, is requesting equality for heterosexual relations, BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS IT’S OWN BUILT-IN INTRINSIC VALUE IN SOCIETAL AGREEMENT… Inequality IS NOT a projected state (TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012).


#4

I’m not gay I believe everything the Church teaches. I just wanted to know where it says it.


#5

First, it is important to note that not all of our morality comes strictly from the Bible. Even in the Bible itself, we are told that not all laws are contained within it. However, it is a fair question to want to know where–if at all–it can be found in the bible.

It can.

There are several references in both the Old and New Testaments regarding this. First I will highlight some from the Old Testament.

**1. **The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom - both young and old – surrounded the house. *They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens *- Genesis 19:1,4,5,24.

**2. **Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. - Leviticus 18:22

**3. **If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. - Leviticus 20:13

This was just a few. There are many more. And now I will highlight some from the New Testament:

**4. **Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. – Romans 1:26-27

**5. **Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. – 1st Corinthians 6:9-10

**6. **Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” - Matthew 19:5-6

I particularly think that quote number 5 above from 1st Corinthians is tremendously relevant. We get caught on this debate about homosexuality as sin, and some forget that it is one piece in a vast array of sexual immorality; an even smaller piece in the tremendous array of immorality in general. We are all fallen. We are all in need of prayer, encouragement, love and healing. Love does not equate encouraging one another to sin freely without consequence.


#6

You won’t find the actual words that you are asking but the teachings come from verses such as Genesis 2:18, Genesis 2:24, Genesis 19:5, Matthew 19:5-6. More can be found here…

scripturecatholic.com/


#7

As someone stated before don’t forget that not all out morality comes straight from the Bible or is expressly stated in the Bible. Many things are interpreted from the bible.Purgatory is a perfect example of a dogma that is nowhere in the Bible… remember, the bible.is not.interpreted on a sentence by sentence basis rather under the light of its entire context and tradition.


#8

There is a Father of the Church who said not to believe a word he says if his words cannot be found in Scripture.


#9

Which Father? Where did he say? What was the context he said it in?


#10

[quote="Guy355, post:1, topic:328115"]
Where does it say in the Bible that Gay rights such as Gay marriage and Gay intercourse is wrong?

[/quote]

Dont be silly!
"Gay" in the english language meant "Happy" until around the 60's, with only a tiny number of examples from the 1920's having a meaning of "homosexuality".

Furthermore there is a very distinct difference between the objective presence in a person of the nature of and direction of their sexual preferences and their identity as "Gay" - which is a very modern, western-cultural phenomenon.

The whole concept of "Gay Marriage" could not have existed prior to the "Sexual revolution" of the '60's as that is when the introduction of accessible contraception separated the sexual act from the inevitable consequences of child-rearing.
The availability and over use of antibiotics at the same time made people think they could evade the disease consequences of promiscuous sex as well.

The fruits of these changes, and the liberal "Sexual revolution" was for our society to re-envisage marriage as no-longer being the institution on which society is founded, and the means by which new families are formed, and instead views it as the public celebration of a romantic affair and "Being In Love" - which again is a modern cultural construct put forth by Hollywood.
Prior to the "Hollywood" view of romance, the idea of choosing a spouse based on romantic "love" as the deciding factor was seen as a rare and ill-advised occurrence. The statistics on divorce in western society are a testament to the poor choices it leads to.

The bible says from Genesis to Revelation, including both those books, that sexuality is a Gift from God, and is part of our ability to co-operate in his creation. It is Very Good, but only properly used within Marriage.
all sex outside Marriage is Sinfull. It Hurts the individuals involved and it hurts the wider society. It gravely offends God.
Marriage by it's natural definition can only be between a Man and a Woman. Divine Revelation tells us it must only be between 1 man and 1 woman.

Any idiot can look at our western society and see that easy divorce and re-marriage is very wrong and damaging to the spouses, their children and to the Society around them. While Jesus stated a divine prohibition of Re-marriage after divorce, any idiot can look at the statistics and see that if a person was unable to make a 1st marriage work their chances of succeeding a 2nd time are very very low indeed. To try again without fixing what went wrong the first time is just cruel. It should NOT be legal.

Now on the topic of Gay "Rights". Every person has the "Right" to marry. But marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. I'm not stopping my "Gay" sister or brother from finding a husband or wife. Many many men and women in history have chosen this path despite having sexual attraction to their own gender as well as or instead of attraction to the opposite gender.
No previous society - no matter how highly they esteemed same sex relationships - has ever claimed that these relationships can be "Marriage" - Look at the Ancient Greeks and Romans - look a some of the North American Indians. - Look at some African tribal cultures.....
Homosexuality (a in same-sex attraction) and bi-sexuality exists across human cultures. How society responds to it varies hugely - but our western society is the first and only to consider it capable of being called "Marriage".


#11

Exactly what was the context he said that? And which were his exact words verbatum. If there is one thing that people do very frequently do is misusing and misinterpret writing of the fathers of the church and given that saying that if it is not in the Bible.is not true is against the church teaching, is probably a misuse.


#12

While I’d like to know that reference, too, I don’t think ConstantineTG has said anything to indicate he’s “misusing and misinterpreting writings of the fathers of the church.” How about giving him time to come back and give the reference?


#13

From what I understand about the Church's stance on gay "marriage" is that it's simply impossible. By definition marriage is a union between a man and a woman. What we are talking about is a redefinition of the word marriage (and by extension what it means to be a family).

In my opinion the best way to solve this issue would have been for the state to have stayed out of the marriage business in the first place. Marriage (that is, matrimony) is a sacrament, not a civil contract.


#14

Actually, the elements of purgatory are found in the bible, just not explicitly, nor succinctly put together in a pretty little verse.

Just because he said that does not mean that it applies to the entire Church. However, if something someone says does contradict scripture, or at least in the Church’s interpretation of scripture, then there is something to worry about.


#15

[quote="agnes_therese, post:12, topic:328115"]
While I'd like to know that reference, too, I don't think ConstantineTG has said anything to indicate he's "misusing and misinterpreting writings of the fathers of the church." How about giving him time to come back and give the reference?

[/quote]

Well is that just like I said, there is nothing more misquoted than writings of church's fathers and there is a writing from a.doctor of the church regarding words in the scripture that is heavily misused by non Catholics to support their theory in a very similar way to what he said. I think that is what he is talking about, because again is a heavily used argument by protestants but I want his reference first.


#16

Purgatory in and of itself is not in the Bible. Heaven and hell.are, purgatory is deducted logically from Jesus’ words. Same with SSM, Jesus didn’t say Expressly “SSM is wrong” but is infered from the passages that had been given in this thread.


#17

This is what I just said. I said it is in there, just not explicitly. It isn’t stated explicitly, but the concepts are there. But, this is different than not being in the bible at all. If it were not in the bible at all, we wouldn’t be able to draw the concepts of purgatory from the bible. Since we can, it is in the bible.


#18

We are basically saying the same thing with different words lol it was the same I was saying about SSM is not explicitly in there but the concept that is wrong is in the Bible, and that is exactly the way the Bible is to be read.


#19

This pretty well sums up the biblical proof that God does not approve of homosexual behavior.

Also,note that protstants incorrectly assume that the bible was created to the be all and end all source of the word of God.

The bible is essentially a collection of letters, stories, history and poetry, In order to properly interpret it you have to take each book in context, such as being that 1 Corinthians is a letter to a specific people it must be kept in mind what was going on there at the time.

Another point is that the bible didn’t exist in it’s current (Catholic version with all the books) form until 363 A.D. and some version of the bible with varying numbers of books started appearing in 170 A.D. So, the bible in any form didn’t even exist for a minimum of 134 years AFTER Jesus died on the cross. That means none of the 12 Apostles would have ever read or held a bible, though they came into contact with some of the individual books (or wrote them).

So given that Apostles never had a bible to teach from it is logical to assume that the bible isn’t the only source of God’s word. I’m not sure what makes certain christians think that God only revealed his word to the apostles and nobody else or why they say the only valid word is written in the bible.

Finally, the printing press (that could mass produce books) didn’t even exist until 1450 or so and most people for many centuries were illiterate. So are we to assime that God would only reveal his word in a way that could only be rich and highly educated could understand? I think not. The teachings of The Lord was entrusted to be taught by his chosen few who were given the power to pass that ability to others, mostly being taught verbally by interpreting the teachings of Jesus in a way that lay people could understand.

It is foolish to think that all of what Jesus taught while on earth could be contained in the bible. The bible no doubt only contains a sliver of what Jesus taught. Also, keep in mind that he turned the teaching of the faith over to the apostles. If understanding his teachings were easy Jesus would simply have ordered them to write all of them down in a book, like a owner’s manual and forgone the pointless appointment of the apostles as the leader of the New Church. After all, if alll the teachings were in the bible and clearly and easily interperted there would be no need for the apostles or the magesterium…right? He could just have dropped a bible out of the heavens like the 10 comandments and said, “read it, follow it”.


#20

It's there.

biblecc.com/1_corinthians/6-9.htm

Peace,
Ed


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