About "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis"


#1

Greetings of Love, Mercy and Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ!

I just want to be certain because some people are calling into question whether this was authentically an infallible statement. Those bold words below are technically, authentically, officially an infallible statement, right? No going around, over or under it, right?: [left] [/left]
[left]"…Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful…"[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] (from the “Apostolic Letter on Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men Alone” by [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Pope John Paul II)[/font]
[/left]

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#2

I consider it to be so. So does Ratzinger, I believe.


#3

I may be mistaken, but the apostolic letter itself is not infallible but it states a teaching of the Magesterium that is infallible, if that makes sense.


#4

Women’s Ordination: It’s Infallible


#5

This is not an “ex cathedra” teaching of Pope John Paul II. It is infallible by the ordinary and universal magisterium, because all the bishops have been teaching this since the Church began.


#6

The letter is NOT infallible, but the teaching it refers to IS. The Pope had no need to invoke Papal Infallibility because, as he indicated, this issue has already been settled infallibly by the Ordinary Magisterium. This is the same reason you’ll never find an infallible Papal document proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah.


#7

It should be pointed out that to invoke papal infallibility on an issue that was previously settled by the ordinary Magesterium would suggest a defect in the ordinary Magesterium’s competency to teach infallibly. As a result, like Ghosty said, it will never happen.


#8

well, the Pope could decide to make an ex-cathedra statement of women’s ordination—remember the Church is infallible in two ways–the ordinary and extraordinary magisterium–the ordinary magisterium CAN BE infallible if a doctrine on a faith and morals is taught over a constant period of time–sometimes this is hard to determine–so that is why, at times, we need the extraordinary magisterium to “step in” an issue a declaration defining a doctrine—women’s ordination is still infallible by virtue of the ordinary magisterium—however that doesnt mean that a future Pope cant issue an ex -cathedra (extraordinary magisterium) if he thinks that it is necessary–


#9

Marineboy,

That’s how I understand it too. It seems to me that clarifying the ordinary magisterium is exactly what the extraordinary magisterium is for. Of course, I interpret the practical consequences of this differently than you do. Since even in Ratzinger’s view the extraordinary magisterium has not spoken, it remains possible for faithful Catholics to believe that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis does not in fact state the teaching of the ordinary magisterium and may be reversed in the future. Certainly many Catholics do believe this. You can call them dissidents or any nasty name you like, but they still exist. Why should I, as a non-Catholic, think that only you and not they represent authentic Catholicism?

Edwin


#10

[quote=Contarini]Marineboy,

That’s how I understand it too. It seems to me that clarifying the ordinary magisterium is exactly what the extraordinary magisterium is for. Of course, I interpret the practical consequences of this differently than you do. Since even in Ratzinger’s view the extraordinary magisterium has not spoken, it remains possible for faithful Catholics to believe that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis does not in fact state the teaching of the ordinary magisterium and may be reversed in the future. Certainly many Catholics do believe this. You can call them dissidents or any nasty name you like, but they still exist. Why should I, as a non-Catholic, think that only you and not they represent authentic Catholicism?

Edwin
[/quote]

Here’s why:

Undefined, noninfallible teaching: Ordinary Magisterium: According to Humani Generis and Lumen Gentium, it demands “religious submission of the will and mind”. – e.g. Papal encyclicals that outline teachings not previously defined. The possibility of error is remote, akin to the possibility that a rare poison could be found in one’s food. If there were any mistake, the Divine Judge would never charge it against us if we had believed His Church. But He would penalize us if we did not believe. Still further, there is not one case in nearly two thousand years in which the Pope himself has erred in this noninfallible type of teaching.


#11

also they would have to show that this teaching has not been “constant”—WE CAN SEE IT HAS BEEN THE CONSTANT TEACHING----FROM THE FATHERS TO THE PRESENT DAY----ALSO-THE FACT THAT SOME MAY QUESTION IT MAY BE CAUSE FOR IT TO BE DECLARED AND DEFINED EXTRAORDINARILY—


#12

October 28, 1995
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Letter: **Concerning the CDF Reply
Regarding Ordinatio Sacerdotalis **

… In response to this precise act of the Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, explicitly addressed to the entire Catholic Church, all members of the faithful are required to give their assent to the teaching stated therein. To this end, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the approval of the Holy Father, has given an official Reply on the nature of this assent; it is a matter of full definitive assent, that is to say, irrevocable, to a** doctrine taught infallibly by the Church**. In fact, as the Reply explains, the definitive nature of this assent derives from the truth of the doctrine itself, since, founded on the written Word of God, and constantly held and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary universal Magisterium (cf. Lumen Gentium, 25). Thus, the Reply specifies that this doctrine belongs to the deposit of the faith of the Church. It should be emphasized that the definitive and infallible nature of this teaching of the Church did not arise with the publication of the Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. In the Letter, as the Reply of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith also explains, the Roman Pontiff, having taken account of present circumstances, has confirmed the same teaching by a formal declaration, giving expression once again to quod semper, quod ubique et quod ab omnibus tenendum est, utpote ad fidei depositum pertinens. In this case, an act of the ordinary Papal Magisterium, in itself not infallible, witnesses to the infallibility of the teaching of a doctrine already possessed by the Church.


#13

read my earlier post genuIS i said the ordinary mag. is not in and of itself infallile but IT CNA BE IF THE TEACHING IS OVER A CONSTANT PERIOD OF TIME


#14

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