Acceptance and Validity


#1

I may be confused, but my pastor stated that my husbands Baptist baptism was recognized by the Catholic church so if he wanted to convert, he need not be baptised again. He stated this was so because he was baptised with water and in the name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If this is true then I pose this question.
Why is it that we need to have our marriage convalidated? We were married by a Baptist preacher, in the name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


#2

I think it has something to do with the Baptist perspective of marriage, that it is holy but the ceremony is not considered to be a sacrament.


#3

Your priest is absolutely right! Your husband’s baptism in the baptist church is completely valid, and it does not need to be performed again.

Now, in reguards to the Sacrament of Marriage that is different. Any person can baptize a person…anyone…CCC #1256 (CCC=Catechism of The Catholic Church) states:

The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize, by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

so, even if your husband had been baptized by a non-baptized person his baptism would have been valid as long as the proper form (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), Matter (Water), and Intention (i.e. to do what the Church does when she baptizes) was present.

However, with marriage…not just ANYONE can perform a Marriage…so, while your husband and yourself where married in the baptist faith…it is neccessary that the marriage be “blessed” by the church. Another words your marriage will be recognized as a Sacrament…and you will obtain the Church’s blessing upon your marriage.

It should not be thought of as a wearysom thing…it should be a happy occasion!

God Bless,

Cody


#4

[quote=romeishome]However, with marriage…not just ANYONE can perform a Marriage…so, while your husband and yourself where married in the baptist faith…it is neccessary that the marriage be “blessed” by the church. Another words your marriage will be recognized as a Sacrament…and you will obtain the Church’s blessing upon your marriage.
[/quote]

It’s also got something to do with the fact that the wife, in this case, must be a Catholic. A Catholic cannot be married outside the Church (unless, maybe, they get a dispensation…not sure). My wife and I were married outside the Church. We were both baptized, but neither were Catholic. Our marriage is sacramental. And it need not be “blessed” by the Church.

Con-validation is only necessary when a Catholic is inolved in a marriage outside the Church.


#5

[quote=romeishome]It should not be thought of as a wearysom thing…it should be a happy occasion!

God Bless,

Cody
[/quote]

Thank you for your help. However, it is still somewhat worrysome to me. The two main factors are;

  1. My pastor has not told me or even indicated that I should not have been taking Communion for the past 8 years. I found this in my own studies and am now very confused. Why would God not want me to part take the Eucharist? Do I not ask for forgiveness and cleansing before Communion? I tell The Lord that I am not worthy to receive him, but if he only say the word, I shall be healed.

  2. Although I know in my heart that I should be following Cannon Law, I do not feel like I need to go to confession and confess to loving things that happen in a marriage (no other nice way to put it) as if the acts in and of themselves were a sin. I was married before God and and in his name. Should it matter where it happened or what ordained man of God performed the ceremony?

Just to clear things up, my husband and I are going to have our marriage convalidated. It strikes me as odd that my pastor has not mentioned anything about a retreat weekend or getting any dispensations?


#6

[quote=julieanne]Why is it that we need to have our marriage convalidated? We were married by a Baptist preacher, in the name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
[/quote]

I’m guessing that since your profile says you are Catholic that it is the situation that you were Catholic and your husband was Baptist and that you two got married by a Baptist. If this is the case, then you as a Catholic were supposed to be married by a priest/deacon in the Catholic Church, and if you did not get a dispensation to get married somewhere else, then you were disobeying the rules about it when you got married. This is why you would need to get your marriage fixed up by a priest.

If you and your husband had been two life-long baptized Baptists getting married in the Baptist church, then it might be a different story. I suspect the issue is that you were a Catholic getting married outside the Church.


#7

Correct John…but I do know that a person who is married outside of the Church in a state where both parties are not catholic…they can still have their marriage blessed…

but you are correct…if the wife is catholic and the husband is not or visa versa then a marriage outside the church is not invalid, but I would presume illicit…because for the catholic party their marriage must be “recognized” by the church.

God Bless,

Cody


#8

[quote=John_Henry]It’s also got something to do with the fact that the wife, in this case, must be a Catholic. A Catholic cannot be married outside the Church (unless, maybe, they get a dispensation…not sure). My wife and I were married outside the Church. We were both baptized, but neither were Catholic. Our marriage is sacramental. And it need not be “blessed” by the Church.

Con-validation is only necessary when a Catholic is inolved in a marriage outside the Church.
[/quote]

This is confusing for me. Do mean your marriage is considered a sacrement in the Catholic church even though you are both non-Catholic?


#9

[quote=julieanne]This is confusing for me. Do mean your marriage is considered a sacrement in the Catholic church even though you are both non-Catholic?
[/quote]

No. If two non-Catholics marry in a non-Catholic ceremony (presumably), then the marriage is non-sacramental, as the officiator and the couple never intend for it to be a sacrament.


#10

[quote=romeishome]Correct John…but I do know that a person who is married outside of the Church in a state where both parties are not catholic…they can still have their marriage blessed…

but you are correct…if the wife is catholic and the husband is not or visa versa then a marriage outside the church is not invalid, but I would presume illicit…because for the catholic party their marriage must be “recognized” by the church.

God Bless,

Cody
[/quote]

I am sorry that I did not tell you that yes, I am Catholic and my husband is Baptist. We were married by a Baptist Preacher.
It is still confusing to me that my husbands batism can be recognized, but our marriage can not be.


#11

[quote=julieanne]I am sorry that I did not tell you that yes, I am Catholic and my husband is Baptist. We were married by a Baptist Preacher.
It is still confusing to me that my husbands batism can be recognized, but our marriage can not be.
[/quote]

You marriage is considered licit, but not sacramental, primarily because of the Baptist understanding of the sacrament. Had you requested a dispensation from the diocese prior to your marriage, your marriage would be considered sacramental, even if it wasn’t officiated by a member of the Church clergy.


#12

Well, Julie it is Church Law!

Canon 1124 says:

**

Without the express permission of the competent authority

, marriage is forbidden between two baptized persons, one of whom was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it after baptism and has not left it by a formal act, and the other of whom is a member of a church or ecclesial community which is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. **

So, if you got married outside of the Church, and you yourself are Catholic, and you did not obtain permission from the Church to be married in another church or ecclesial community…then you committed an illicit act.

Therefore you must correct that illicit act…by having your marriage convalidated by the local ordinary.

Blessing,

Cody


#13

No, no, no Scott the act was illicit…

Illicit: improper or unlawful

so, if a despensation was not obtained and the marriage was entered into anyway…then the marriage was most certainly illicit, or “unlawful”…and it must be convalidated.

Blessings,

Cody


#14

Thanks Cody, even I mess up sometimes (not often, but… smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif)

[quote=romeishome]No, no, no Scott the act was illicit…

Illicit: improper or unlawful

so, if a despensation was not obtained and the marriage was entered into anyway…then the marriage was most certainly illicit, or “unlawful”…and it must be convalidated.

Blessings,

Cody
[/quote]


#15

[quote=Scott_Lafrance]No. If two non-Catholics marry in a non-Catholic ceremony (presumably), then the marriage is non-sacramental, as the officiator and the couple never intend for it to be a sacrament.
[/quote]

Scott, I’m not sure this is entirely correct. Two Baptists would intend to have a valid marriage contract or consent. This is the basis of the sacrament, as it does not require a priest, only the two (baptized) people making the bond. They make the marriage, not the minister, priest, deacon, whomever. So I suspect these marriages by baptized individuals in another Christian denomination are sacramental.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.


#16

Scott…u so funny…LOL…

:rotfl: :rotfl:


#17

[quote=romeishome]Well, Julie it is Church Law!

Canon 1124 says:

So, if you got married outside of the Church, and you yourself are Catholic, and you did not obtain permission from the Church to be married in another church or ecclesial community…then you committed an illicit act.

Therefore you must correct that illicit act…by having your marriage convalidated by the local ordinary.

Blessing,

Cody
[/quote]

Cody,

Please look at my post #5. I would like to hear you responses to what I have written. Please bear in mind while writting your responses, that I do have feelings and that I thought until a few days ago that I was a good Catholic. I am trying to learn what I can and adjust my thinking to line up with my faith. I may not have understood the ramifications of my doing, but I am now tring to fix it. I

Can you point me to Scripture that states I should not have married in another church?

Thanks you for your posts and God Bless!
Julie


#18

Pug from what I understand…

If two baptized individuals marry in another church (as long as neither one are Catholic) then it would be a valid marriage, and licit marriage.

I would assume that the sacrament would also be present, because

CCC 1623 says:

"According to the Latin tradition, the spuses as ministers of Christ’s grace mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church…"
I may be wrong, but I would assume that the sacrament of matrimony would be present.

If I am wrong let me know…

God Bless,

Cody


#19

[quote=Pug]Scott, I’m not sure this is entirely correct. Two Baptists would intend to have a valid marriage contract or consent. This is the basis of the sacrament, as it does not require a priest, only the two (baptized) people making the bond. They make the marriage, not the minister, priest, deacon, whomever. So I suspect these marriages by baptized individuals in another Christian denomination are sacramental.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.
[/quote]

This is what I have been lead to believe from what I have read recently. That is why I find it so hard to swallow that I am living in sin. We are two baptized people making the bond before God.


#20

[quote=julieanne]Cody,

Please look at my post #5. I would like to hear you responses to what I have written. Please bear in mind while writting your responses, that I do have feelings and that I thought until a few days ago that I was a good Catholic. I am trying to learn what I can and adjust my thinking to line up with my faith. I may not have understood the ramifications of my doing, but I am now tring to fix it. I

Can you point me to Scripture that states I should not have married in another church?

Thanks you for your posts and God Bless!
Julie
[/quote]

Julie it is more common than not! Most Catholics have not been catechised properly…but now you are learning what is expected…no a pastor usually will not tell you that you are not supposed to be taking communion…because unfortunatly you present yourself to communion…if you where presenting yourself to communion not really knowing otherwise…your ok…your not culpable for any sin that may have resulted from this.

  1. Although I know in my heart that I should be following Cannon Law, I do not feel like I need to go to confession and confess to loving things that happen in a marriage (no other nice way to put it) as if the acts in and of themselves were a sin. I was married before God and and in his name. Should it matter where it happened or what ordained man of God performed the ceremony?

Well, Julie as a Catholic you are obligated to follow Cannon Law…if you feel like you need to go to confession…by all means go!..The acts themselves are not sins…Yes, you may have been married before God…and you may have been married in His name…however, you where not married the way God wanted you…as a Catholic to be married. Yes, it does matter where it happend. Because God gave us ONE CHURCH…Not many churches, but One Institution…that institution is the Catholic Church. And that man that did the ceremony is not really ordained, he does not possess the Sacrament of Holy Orders, nor does he have the grace of Apostolic Succession.

What is the Church…the Church is the institution that was set up by Christ, and it is founded on the Apostles and Prophets…The baptist faith is a sysmatic group…they are in chism to the Church of Rome.

Basically, as a Catholic you are required to obey the laws of the Church.

I think it is wonderful that you are getting convalidated…don’t be too hard on yourself…this problem is all to common.

God Bless


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