According to Christians, homosexuals can't love

Yeah, I know, I don’t agree either. A friend on facebook posted an article by John Shore (johnshore.com/2013/04/16/what-todays-evangelicals-are-really-telling-gay-people/). I took some exception to the article. Instead of replying to my comments, my friend stated thus:

Nothing against Christians; John Shore, myself, and many others that share these views are Christians. It is NOT a Christian value to tell someone that being homosexual is a sin and that being in a consensual, adult relationship is a sin. These are very misguided views, similar to racism, slavery, and gender inequality.

Telling LGBT adults that they can never be married and love another person in a romantic, intimate, and sexual way is degrading and damaging and continues to contribute to teenage and adult depression, suicide, and alienation from church.

I’m looking for one area to respond to. Thoughts?


Here was what I posted in case anyone’s interested and looking for context.

What with this tear against christians <name deleted>? The first part of this quote is wrong. John Shore is relegating “love” to genitalia. Love is SO MUCH MORE. You love your daughter, don’t you? But wait you might argue, that’s not what he’s saying. I think he is. “What you mean is that you want them to condemn themselves to a life absolutely devoid of the kind of the romantic, long-term, emotionally and physically intimate love that all people, Christians included, understand not only as their birthright, but as just about the greatest part of being human.” The greatest part about being human is not sexual love. I LOVE MANY PEOPLE. {I might even say that I love you <name deleted>!} But I’m only sexually intimate with one of those people I love. And that’s BY FAR NOT the most important part of our love for one another. – So he can say “all people, Christian included”, but I believe I fall into the category of people and the category of christian, and I don’t agree.

I’m not saying that it’s not worth discussing. I’m saying if there’s a discussion, one side shouldn’t be misrepresented. One can’t say another side is ‘lame’ and ‘brain-dead’ {how can one take any argument seriously when there’s name calling?} if they either misrepresent the other side or don’t understand the other side or their definitions.

Yet living without love is exactly what anti-gay Christians insist upon for gay people.

When you tell a gay person to “resist” being gay, what you are really telling them—what you really mean—is for them to be celibate. It’s okay for them to be gay; they just can’t live out their gayness.

What you mean is that you want them to condemn themselves to a life absolutely devoid of the kind of the romantic, long-term, emotionally and physically intimate love that all people, Christians included, understand not only as their birthright, but as just about the greatest part of being human.

This begs the question that forming an intimate relationship with another person means that you live without love. This also begs the question that being gay is fixed. This assumes wrongly that every person is involved with another person and as a result of that they are happy equating happiness to being with another person or being happy extrinsicaslly not intrinsically.

If you’re looking to respond to each area at a time, I will say that anyone who compares this to slavery knows nothing about either.

Explain this.

If someone compares the refusal to support homosexual marriage to the type of slavery that existed in the Americas and finds them to be similar, either in outcome or cause, it is difficult for me to believe that the person knows much about either situation.

Even if I was to give in and say that refusing homosexual marriage was some kind of moral evil, I still would not place in on the same level of moral evil as the slavery that existed here. Not even close. It would be ridiculous to compare the two. Slavery led to organized mass murder, rape, and the separation of children from their mothers.

Does the refusal to allow homosexual marriage lead to people being pressed into servitude against their will? Does it place them in a position where they can be legally killed and raped? Does it make them a piece of property under the law? Does it force them to live in fear of a violent master? No.

Slavery is a condition forced on people through violence or a powerful legal system. On the other hand, refusing to legalize homosexual marriage does not place someone in such a vulnerable legal category. At most, it can be said that they are forced to remain single. Being single would keep them from attaining certain benefits that married couples can gain, but it still does not deprive them of other legal protections that all single people would have. So it is far from being similar to slavery.

Well then,

I agree that as we look back…

Homosexuals were not imported to work on plantations…

There is no history of Homosexual gospel music…

There is no emancapation proclamation for Homosexuals that were enslaved…

There is no Civil War that was fought over Homosexuality…

There is no comparable figure to George Wallace banning homosexuals from college

There is no comparable person like Martin Luther King that would register in my mind as a Homosexual singing, leading masses…we shall overcome…

Yes, I would say that slavery and homosexuality have nothing in common…

but where did you draw slavery out of what hat…I can’t find it in the OP nor the article?

The OP said that their friend claimed the Church’s refusal to allow homosexual marriage was due to “misguided views” that were similar to slavery, racism, and gender inequality (I guess they mean misogyny).

The fight against legalizing same-sex “marriage” it not about preventing two people of the same sex to have sexual relations with each other. Sexual relationships outside of true marriage are against moral law, but not against civil law. People who consider themselves homosexuals have the “liberty” to commit these acts, just as two unmarried opposite-sex partners do.
The fight is against deconstructing marriage.

Why Marriage Matters (Alliance Defending Freedom, an alliance of Christian lawyers defending attacks on religious liberty)
alliancedefendingfreedom.org/issues/marriage-and-family

Marriage: Unique For a Reason (USCCB - Catholic teachings on marriage)
marriageuniqueforareason.org/

Archbishop Cordileone states case against gay “marriage” (interview by USA Today)
usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/21/archbishop-cordileone-gay-marriage-catholic-church/2001085/
“To legalize marriage between two people of the same sex would enshrine in the law the principle that mothers and fathers are interchangeable or irrelevant.”

A Primer on Church Teaching Regarding Same-Sex “Marriage” (First Things blog)
firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/03/27/a-primer-on-church-teaching-regarding-same-sex-marriage/#comments

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

It is not a Christian value to just sit there and not say anything while someone commits acts that are offensive to God. It is an act of charity to inform them of the truth in a kind and loving way. It is their choice to act on it, but they do have the right to know what they’re doing goes against the Bible. The Biblical “judge” is actually to condemn, meaning to tell that person they are going to hell. Only God knows the state of the other person’s soul, so we cannot say where their final destination will be, only that certain actions place their soul in danger.

Being attracted to members of the same sex is not a sin. A sin is something that someone does, an action. It is, however, a sin to act on those attractions.

Not all consensual, adult relationships are good. There is also fornication, which is bad on a scientific level because it creates premature emotional attachments between the two people, and makes it that much more difficult for them to discern whether or not they’re right for each other. They love them because of the hormones, not because they are good for each other. They stay together for months, even years longer than they should, because of that bond they created by sleeping together, and in time they realize what they would have realized right away had they not been sleeping together from the first month together: they are not a good match! It’s not a coincidence that the divorce rates have skyrocketed since the “sexual revolution.”

And what about incest? There have been cases of fathers and daughters being together, even having a baby. And why only two people? People have been happy in polygamous unions.

Marriage does require consent and that both people are adults, but that doesn’t mean all adult consenting relationships are good. There is such a thing as right and wrong, even for adults. Right and wrong isn’t just for people under age 18.

The active homosexual lifestyle:
-has high rates of promiscuity - many report over 100 or even over 1,000 lifetime sexual partners
-has a disproportionately high rate of STDs for being such a small percentage of the population
-high rates of suicide and depression
-lower life expectancy than the average smoker
-high rates of breast (lesbian) and colon cancer (gay)
-relationships almost never more than 5-10 years without breaking up or becoming an “open” relationship

One does not need to be married or be in a sexual relationship in order to love another person. There are many kinds of love, and leading another person into mortal sin or a dangerous lifestyle is the antithesis of love. Love is wanting what is best for the other person for his or her own sake.

There is a difference between inclination and behavior. Someone can be genetically prone to alcoholism, but that doesn’t mean that he/she must/should become an alcoholic. It simply means that alcohol is a temptation that they struggle against.

We also need to note the homosexuals are not special. Everyone sins. Everyone faces temptation. Some are more prone to sexual sin, others to greed (care more about money than people), others to gluttony, etc. Most importantly, everyone is called to a life of holiness.

Another problem with our society is that we are told that sex is a need. Many people have died as virgins and lived happy, fulfilled lives serving God and their communities. Needs are food, clean water, shelter, and clothing. Medical care and at least a basic education. It is better to abstain when unmarried because one can have a clear head for discerning if/when one does decide to date, and develop the self control needed for the periods in marriage when it will be necessary to abstain (illness, NFP, spouse is too tired after a long day, etc.).

Talking about racism is irrelevant and a logical fallacy known as a category mistake because being a certain race is not a behavior like homosexual activity is.

Slavery is wrong because it is legalized abuse (rape, beatings, taking kids from their parents) and the workers were not compensated. This is not the same as the slavery described in the Bible because the slaves were only slaves for a set period of time (e.g. to learn a trade and/or work off a debt) and then were allowed to go free. Slavery in America was kidnapping African people for no reason and keeping them as slaves until death. And also beaten and treated badly.

Gender inequality is also wrong because women were treated as less than persons according to the law (e.g. could not own property or choose to vote), and women were not allowed to get the same level of education as men or get equal pay for equal work.

Beating up gay people is a sin. Refusing to hire a qualified individual who is gay is also a sin. Maybe one wouldn’t hire an actively gay person for positions where they’d be a role model for kids and they’d speak against the parents’ beliefs, but in most cases that wouldn’t apply.

Depression and suicide are mental conditions. People become depressed because of a chemical imbalance in their brains, not because someone told them not to sleep with someone else. People from all walks of life, all races, sexual orientations, social classes, religions, men, women and children suffer from depression. Countries that are more accepting of homosexual behavior have higher rates of suicide than countries that are more Christian religious. If someone becomes depressed, I’d suggest that they see a good Christian counselor who will help guide them to living a life that is right with God.

Ok,

Missed that…I was looking at the last portion…

I took some exception to the article. Instead of replying to my comments, my friend stated thus:

Nothing against Christians; John Shore, myself, and many others that share these views are Christians. It is NOT a Christian value to tell someone that being homosexual is a sin and that being in a consensual, adult relationship is a sin. These are very misguided views, similar to racism, slavery, and gender inequality.

Racism is a non-sequitor…no one is as yet been proven to be born gay

Slavery is a non-sequitor…there is no correlation to slavery and homosexuals as noted

Gender inequality relates to men and women and homosexuals are not another gender…men and women act homosexually.

this has to be the tenth topic on homosexuals on this forum, what is up with that ?

the thread should be titled according to homosexuals, because any True Christian / Catholic knows better that what keeps being posed.

According to homosexuals, Christians / Catholics hate homosexuals, the end.

Because Christians / Catholics have a set of morals, values, based on our Faith in Christ that evidently must mean because we as Christians / Catholics do not even treat homosexuals as being human. It is so obvious " we " hate homosexuals, because we refuse to bend on our faith and be " tolerant ". It is always the Christians / Catholics who need to be more " understanding " .

At least this is portrayed publicly, what the masses do not know is that there are plenty of SSA people who are Christian / Catholic, who are working to either live a chaste and celibate life in the faith or are working with Christian orgs / or other orgs to understand and believe why they are created to actually live a heterosexual life.

to think a certain type of person can not " love " is an insane concept, " to love someone " is such a broad topic one has to define and understand the context of the meaning before even posing the question.

If homosexuals can’t love, the how about criminals ? Terrorists ? Mass murderers ? How about Hitler, and Osama ? Politicians ? Lawyers ?

So evidently once again the cat is out of the bag and homosexuals have figured out that the evil christians and catholics just hate them because they choose to " love " differently than " we " do.

rats.

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