Dear Cathoholic: (hee)
I was pointing out from scripture that some people in the NT got saved, justified, without
water and waterbaptism, at the time they were saved.
They listened to preaching of the gospel, believed on Jesus, and received the Holy
Spirit, becoming saved.
What I was trying to say was that the water itself of water baptism, wasn’t what saved them, it was God, the Holy Spirit responding to them believing. In water itself, is not where the power to create the new creation lies. (the water isn’t what does it)
I do not believe they received a gift of tongues, listed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit
in the Bible, I believe they received an evidence of the ‘baptism in the Holy Spirit’…,
that was 1) salvation Holy Spirit entrance, and then step two, baptism in the HOly Spirit,(same as Upper Room Pentecost)
all at one time.
Then afterwards, they had a water baptism, after the salvation and justification occurred.
This is the order of events that we see occur in the church I am in currently.
- listening to the Word of God spoken about God’s good news, gospel.
- believe on it and believe on Jesus Christ, salvation, and justification,.
- followed by water baptism (we have a tradition of dunking underwater, if possible
if not, we use a large pitcher and bowl and ‘pour’ over the head of the person, into the
bowl. (with, in the name of the F.S. and HS.
Same as this example above.
We also believe in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, a separate event from the Holy Spirit’s initial entrance into the individual. We believe that ‘speaking in languages you have not previously learned’ is the evidence that this baptism has occurred.
What I was saying was that it would seem from this instance that salvation justification occurred without water at all. Then after salvation occurred and even further than salvation justification,…the second Holy Spirit action, same as the one poured out at Pentecost, occurred, all before the person went into the water.
Why Holy Spirit baptism tongues and gift of tongues are different, first reason
is that baptism tongues is the evidence that HS baptism has occurred. This was spoken of as the evidence that the HS baptism had occurred. It was spoken of every time a HS baptism occurred. (this is not water baptism, separate and different) It happened to the initial 120 in the upper room, and it also happened every time following, when someone was said to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, speaking in languages they had not learned
In another place in the bible is listed all of the Gifts ot the HOly spirit listed including
speaking in tongues, gift of Healing, Gift of working wonders,.having supernaturally acquired knowledge, wisdom,…etc.
These talk about the gifts, and one is tongues, however, this type of tongues is distinctly different, BECAUSE
it says that God gives these gifts as He wills,.
about the tongues of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit
This baptism always has the tongues and it is given to EVERYONE and for EVERYONE
and is diff. and has diff. functions and even rules applied to it, than the tongues that is the gift of tongues. People often mix the two together, but they are separate.
So the baptism in the HOLy SPIRIT is for all who are in Christ and endeavouring faithfulness, and with this also is given
tongues as an evidence, and from this evidence we know by practicing it, that
these tongues do not disappear after initial baptism in the H. SP. They stay with a person and is a way of ‘praying in the Holy Spirit’ without understanding, but sometimes you can have the understanding of what you are praying.
Scripture where list of Holy Spirit supernatural gifts are:
Nine Spiritual Gifts Defined
A. Purpose of Gifts
Confirm prophet speaking from God: Heb 2:3,4
Edify church: 1 Cor 12:7
B. Function Of Each Of The Nine Gifts: 1 Cor 12:8-10
Wisdom: Bible says little, perhaps: 1 Cor 2:4-7; 2 Pe 3:15
Knowledge: 1 Cor 13:8 Bible says little about this gift
Faith: 1 Cor 13:2; Mt 17:19 21 Bible says little about this gift
a) Jn 14:26; 16:13
b) Eph 3:5 apostles and prophets
c) Acts 21:9 four daughters of Philip (Apostle Prophet John, Open Vision Revelation)
Distinguishing of Spirits: Bible says little, perhaps: Acts 16:16-18; 1 Jn 4:1
Healings: Acts 3 lame man: Jas 5:14-15
Miracles: Acts 20:9-12; Acts 28:3-6
a) unlearned foreign languages: Acts 2:718
b) sign to unbelievers: cor 14:22; Acts 2:6-8
c) 1 Cor 12:27-28
(1) no more than 3 may speak in any one assembly
(2) each must speak in turn, not a the same time
(3) if no interpreter present no one may speak in tongues in assembly aloud in public address.
- Interpretation of tongues: 1 Cor 14:13,28
Holy Spirit always given through the laying on of Apostles ?(not sure, because today this same thing occurs, from hands that are not apostles hands: Acts 8:14-19
Holy spirit decide who would get which gift: I Cor 12:7-11