Adam and Eve didn't have sex until after the Fall?

I have read many references both on CAF and elsewhere that contrast the sin of Eve in disobeying God, to the fiat of the Virgin Mary at the Annunciation when she accepted God’s will. Often, such references refer to Eve as a virgin – basically, Eve is the bad virgin who said “No” to God, while Mary is the good virgin who said “Yes” to God.

So, does that mean Catholics believe Adam and Eve didn’t engage in sex until after the Fall? But if there was no such thing as sex until then, then why would God tell Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply? Why would there be a reference to a man leaving his parents, cleaving to his wife, and becoming one flesh with her? Why would he tell Eve after the fall that he would greatly increase her pain in childbearing, which to me indicates God’s plan even before the fall was for Eve to bear children? Was there some other, non-sexual way that God planned for Adam and Eve to procreate, until they messed up? But then, why would He create their bodies with genitals that seem to be optimally designed for sexual intercourse? Unless the genitals didn’t appear until after Fall?

I just find it very confusing, as there seem to be so many contradictions depending on the source, as to what the Church’s view of sex is. Some seem to find it a necessarily evil, at least venially sinful unless the ONLY goal is to produce children, yet some contemporary speakers (such as Christopher West) seem to glamorize sex, compare it to the Holy Trinity, etc. Yet much of the discourse on Mary (such as the insistence that she remained Ever-Virgin) seems to denigrate the sexually active, even if in the context of lawful marriage. Yet, the Church won’t allow an impotent person to marry, even though Josephite marriage is allowed.

Anyway, if someone can help clarify this, I’d appreciate it.

We don’t know. We only know their first recorded child was conceived after the Fall.

Maybe the ‘apple’ was sex

I hope so. That way I don’t have to believe in talking snakes.

I have a hard time believing that a man and a woman, naked and full of innocence, would not explore this area on their own with vigor…unless their stay in the garden was extremely brief.

Since the “apple” is described as being “the knowledge of good and evil” I seriously doubt it has anything to do with sex at all …

Seroiusly, this is all just speculation regarding Eve.

Mary’s virginity does not imply Eve’s in the least.

Pardon me, but even your first sentence reflects a lot of misunderstanding of Catholic doctrines by Catholics here on CAF.

You have valid questions which may be answered if one looks first at God’s basic, eternal purpose for each individual person including human nature itself.

The guide to understanding Adam is that the whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man.” (St. Thomas Aquinas, De Malo 4, 1. and Cf. Council of Trent: DS 1511-1512. Both references are in the footnotes of paragraph 404, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition)

My first suggestion is to study paragraphs 355 - 421 in this Catechism. Enter the on-line Catechism by putting “Paragraph 355” in the search bar. scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

One of the keys to understanding Adam is to acknowledge him as the “creature” dependent on his Creator and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom. God established Adam in His friendship. As the created one, Adam could only live in God’s friendship by free submission to God.

The watershed of Adam’s life was the temptation of Satan. Catholicism teaches that Adam received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all his descendants. If Adam had refused Satan’s temptation, then the blessing to bear children would include the harmony of the body. Adam’s sin disrupted the harmony and thus childbirth would be more painful than previously anticipated.

The key doctrine involved in the first three chapters of Genesis is the promise of the Redeemer of all people. From the fact that Christ hung bleeding on a cross for all people, one can understand that “all people” followed the free choice of Adam. In other words, God’s first blessing referred to the watershed of Adam’s life.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16 & 17

Nah, I don’t buy it. God told them to be fruitful and multiply in their fallen state, surely He would have wanted them to do so in their perfected state.

Also, I don’t think it’s accidetal that Moses inserted Genesis 2:24 in this passage of scripture (this is pre-fall):

[size=3]Gen 2:20[/size] The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.
[size=3]Gen 2:21[/size] So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.
[size=3]Gen 2:22[/size] And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.
[size=3]Gen 2:23[/size] Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”
[size=3]Gen 2:24[/size] Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
[size=3]Gen 2:25[/size] And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

we dont know if adam and eve had sex before or after the fall. however, if they had it after the fall it implies that sex in marriage is from a fallen nature. this would be wrong. God created sex within marriage as something sacred and beautiful for the expression of unifying love and procreation of the human race. God told Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply and conquer the earth.
father angus

Wait, what? I’ve always been taught that it represented knowledge, indeed — carnal knowledge.

From a literary perspective it would appear to make sense, and you could see why Elohim were so enraged with Adam and Eve: immortality + pro-creation = parity with Elohim. Also from a literary perspective, the original female as the “temptress” makes sense within that culture, they believed that women were temptresses.

Yahweh does strike back for similar offenses, if you think about it. The first one that comes to mind is the Tower of Babel.

No, that statement doesn’t make sense. As has been stated, God commanded Adam and Eve to “fill the earth and subdue it” before the Fall.

Oh shoot. Well, there’s 2 creation stories anyway, so it can’t make sense taken literally no matter what you do.

Any idea what the tree of the knowledge of good and evil really is?

I now that the first child was conceived *after *the Fall. And the Fall is a 3 month long season so I would have to say that they probably had Sex 6 or 7months before the Fall.

There was no apple. The Bible makes no mention of an apple.

Quince?

I’m confused. As Catholics, we are not literalists, right?

Question here. How does it affect our salvation if we know the answer to this question?

Should we not ask questions if those questions do not directly and demonstrably affect our salvation?

I asked my deacon about this at RCIA tonight and he thinks that Adam and Eve might have had sex before the fall, but does not know. He said there is no “Official” Catholic teaching about it.

We did talk about the Tree of Knowledge though, and he thinks it is all a symbol for pride.

I have also heard it said that the fruit and the tree was a symbol for when man stopped being caveman and started to grow crops. This version makes a lot of sense, in that people did used to run around naked living on fruit and whatever they could catch in the wild. One day we decided to start wearing clothing and grow things.

Pax :signofcross:

Carnal knowledge was added to make money selling books. :wink:

We should not. Because why waste our time on information that has no bearing on our salvation? Lets not trivialize our faith.

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