Adam and Eve sinned , but why should we all should we all suffer the consequences?


#1

I put a question similar to this on the Ask an Apologist section and received a poor answer .

This is a question that has troubled me for quite a while , but is now troubling me seriously .

Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their sin . They were expelled from the garden to live in a world where they suffered and eventually died .

My question is why do we have to suffer the consequences of the sin of Adam and Eve when we played no part in their sin ?

Think of a father who has several children . One of them brings shame on the family because of some evil he indulges in . The father feels that he has no option but to disinherit his son , banish him from the family , and hand him over to the authorities to suffer due punishment .

Now at the same time the father does something very extraordinary . He turns towards his other children and tells them that because of the wrong-doing of their brother they too are being disinherited , banished from the family , and will suffer the same punishment as their brother , even though it was the brother and not themselves who had sinned .

Now surely we would all see this father as unjust and cruel , lacking in love .

But is this not how God has treated all human beings who have lived since the time of Adam and Eve ?
Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their disobedience . But the extraordinary thing is that God has made every other human being since Adam and Eve accept the consequences of a sin which was not theirs .

Why should we live in a vale of tears , ending in death , because of a sin we never committed ?

This troubles me seriously , and seems to be leading me to a point where I have to make a decision as to whether in all conscience I can carry on believing .

Any help will be gratefully received . I thank you in anticipation .


#2

Original sin was originally committed by Adam and eve. We don’t actually share the same sin, but because of what they did we are stained by it. A better analogy than the one you put forward would be a father, his adopted son and his wife are all living in the same house. The son and daughter disobey the only rule of the house and are kicked out. The son and wife then have children. The father never stops loving his children, but neither can he let them come back because of the heinous act they committed.


#3

“arkwright”,

Ponder this:

No matter what response you get here what gnaws at you may still be there.

God is infinite, we are finite. Trust Him! He knows what He is about, and what is best for our salvation.

There are many fine points that we will not comprehend until, hopefully, we are with Him for all eternity. Focus on Jesus, the Incarnation of the 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity. Do not allow yourself to be side-tracked by the curiosities of our finite intellect.


#4

[quote="arkwright, post:1, topic:320387"]

Why should we live in a vale of tears , ending in death , because of a sin we never committed ?

[/quote]

Sorry but I live in an ocean of boundless love and that love is Jesus Christ, who was, out of love, heinously crucified for mankind's salvation.

*According to scripture, we are not punished for Adam's sin (Ezekiel 18). Rather, Adam's fall from perfection has impacted us (Romans 5).

For example, if you are descended from a dog, you will be a dog. If you are descended from a parrot, you will be a parrot. If you are descended from a sinner, you will be a sinner. We have inherited Adam's sin-nature, not Adam's punishment. Thus, we are not punished for Adam's sin, but rather, we are punished for our own sin.

Consequences are not always "punishment". Our inheritance of Adam's sinful nature is a consequence, but not a punishment.

Not only does God NOT punish us for Adam's sin, He has even offered to take away the punishment that we deserve for our own sin through the voluntary sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Romans 5).

We all deserve death for our own sin (Romans 3:23, 6:23), but Christ died in our place on the cross (Romans 5). He is the only way to heaven (John 14:6). If we put our faith in Him, and Him alone, we will be spared (Romans 10:9). - See more at: godcontention.org/index.php?qid=142#sthash.9V4wLJgw.dpuf*

I have some other links for you. Hope it helps.

tektonics.org/lp/origsin.html
carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/are-we-punished-adams-sin


#5

[quote="Dorothy, post:3, topic:320387"]
"arkwright",

Ponder this:

No matter what response you get here what gnaws at you may still be there.

God is infinite, we are finite. Trust Him! He knows what He is about, and what is best for our salvation.

There are many fine points that we will not comprehend until, hopefully, we are with Him for all eternity. Focus on Jesus, the Incarnation of the 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity. Do not allow yourself to be side-tracked by the curiosities of our finite intellect.

[/quote]

Thanks , Dorothy , for your reply .

You mention our salvation , but that is part of my difficulties also .

From the Genesis story I could understand the need for the salvation of Adam and Eve . However , I cannot understand why all the rest of mankind should have been placed in the need of salvation because of a sin which was not theirs .


#6

[quote="arkwright, post:5, topic:320387"]

From the Genesis story I could understand the need for the salvation of Adam and Eve . However , I cannot understand why all the rest of mankind should have been placed in the need of salvation because of a sin which was not theirs .

[/quote]

Becuase, through their act they cut off ties with God. If they are no longer directly and fully tied to God, they have no way of siring children which are fully connected to God. Think of genetics; if you're missing a chromosome, you have no way of passing on the chromosome to your children. They were simply rendered incapable of producing a child completely in tune with God through their actions; they lost the absolute connection to grace they initially enjoyed, and therefore could not pass that connection on to their children. Since their children, likewise, did not have that connection, then they could not produce a further generation with it, so on and so forth until we reach you, or me, or anyone else. Aside from Adam and Eve, only two people in all of history have had the capacity to produce life in full communion with God. One of them gave birth to our savior, and the other sacrificed himself to redeem us.

We required that sacrifice to restore our connection to God. Through it, the channels of grace were re-opened, and the sacrament of baptism was initiated as the method through which that grace was obtained. As an even greater display of love, God did not even require that we remain perfect after our baptism, but instead also gave us the most wonderful gift that is the sacrament of reconciliation, to pick us up, yet again, after we fall. Do not focus on the loss of grace, rather, focus on the gift of it's restoration, which can receive as often as necessary through the Church!


#7

It’s just our condition that we’ve inherited.

one either accepts this truth, all is not the end since our saviour is in Christ, one man condemns us and one man will redeem us.


#8

[quote="arkwright, post:1, topic:320387"]
I put a question similar to this on the Ask an Apologist section and received a poor answer .

This is a question that has troubled me for quite a while , but is now troubling me seriously .

Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their sin . They were expelled from the garden to live in a world where they suffered and eventually died .

My question is why do we have to suffer the consequences of the sin of Adam and Eve when we played no part in their sin ?

[/quote]

The Catholic answer begins with the recognition that God exists as the Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. (Creed usually said at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass on Sunday)

The Catholic answer also recognizes that the Biblical Adam (first three chapters of Genesis) was the first, true, real human person created by God Who is a transcendent Pure Spirit without material restrictions. Adam is the creature.

The third necessary recognition is that the whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man." (paragraphs 404-405 Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition) This concept can be understood in the light of the Catholic doctrine of monogenism (two, sole human founders of the human species)

Obviously, one needs to know what the Original Sin entailed. Primarily, one needs to recognize the difference in status between God the Creator and Adam the Creature. Because of this difference in status, the Catholic answer includes the fact that in order for Adam, created in the image of God, to live in friendship with his Creator, he had to live in free submission to his Creator. At this point it is helpful to understand the depth of Genesis 3: 5. It is also helpful to understand the Catholic doctrine that all of humanity, including you and me, are descendants of Adam and Eve.

It is assumed that Catholics understand Adam's human nature and consequently understand our own nature. (CCC 355-421)


#9

[quote="arkwright, post:1, topic:320387"]
I put a question similar to this on the Ask an Apologist section and received a poor answer .

This is a question that has troubled me for quite a while , but is now troubling me seriously .

Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their sin . They were expelled from the garden to live in a world where they suffered and eventually died .

My question is why do we have to suffer the consequences of the sin of Adam and Eve when we played no part in their sin ?

Think of a father who has several children . One of them brings shame on the family because of some evil he indulges in . The father feels that he has no option but to disinherit his son , banish him from the family , and hand him over to the authorities to suffer due punishment .

Now at the same time the father does something very extraordinary . He turns towards his other children and tells them that because of the wrong-doing of their brother they too are being disinherited , banished from the family , and will suffer the same punishment as their brother , even though it was the brother and not themselves who had sinned .

Now surely we would all see this father as unjust and cruel , lacking in love .

But is this not how God has treated all human beings who have lived since the time of Adam and Eve ?
Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their disobedience . But the extraordinary thing is that God has made every other human being since Adam and Eve accept the consequences of a sin which was not theirs .

Why should we live in a vale of tears , ending in death , because of a sin we never committed ?

This troubles me seriously , and seems to be leading me to a point where I have to make a decision as to whether in all conscience I can carry on believing .

Any help will be gratefully received . I thank you in anticipation .

[/quote]

I had a thread similar to this where I suggested that in all things, God works for the good. I suggested that our fall will result in our souls being elevated far higher than had the fall not occurred.


#10

[quote="arkwright, post:1, topic:320387"]
I put a question similar to this on the Ask an Apologist section and received a poor answer .

This is a question that has troubled me for quite a while , but is now troubling me seriously .

Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their sin . They were expelled from the garden to live in a world where they suffered and eventually died .

My question is why do we have to suffer the consequences of the sin of Adam and Eve when we played no part in their sin ?

Think of a father who has several children . One of them brings shame on the family because of some evil he indulges in . The father feels that he has no option but to disinherit his son , banish him from the family , and hand him over to the authorities to suffer due punishment .

Now at the same time the father does something very extraordinary . He turns towards his other children and tells them that because of the wrong-doing of their brother they too are being disinherited , banished from the family , and will suffer the same punishment as their brother , even though it was the brother and not themselves who had sinned .

Now surely we would all see this father as unjust and cruel , lacking in love .

But is this not how God has treated all human beings who have lived since the time of Adam and Eve ?
Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their disobedience . But the extraordinary thing is that God has made every other human being since Adam and Eve accept the consequences of a sin which was not theirs .

Why should we live in a vale of tears , ending in death , because of a sin we never committed ?

This troubles me seriously , and seems to be leading me to a point where I have to make a decision as to whether in all conscience I can carry on believing .

Any help will be gratefully received . I thank you in anticipation .

[/quote]

Because we're all Adam, in a sense. Adam represents all humankind and all humankind fell corporately through him and the consequences are all worth it since, in the end, we have the opportunity to obtain an even greater existence-more life-via this fall and the Redeemer it won for us. In this way we're tested and refined as we struggle with our own sin-our own preference for our way rather than Gods way-to see which will eventually win out. As we sin we already tacitly ratify Adam's decision, his rebellion. As we turn from sin we reject his disobedience.


#11

[quote="arkwright, post:1, topic:320387"]
I put a question similar to this on the Ask an Apologist section and received a poor answer .

Think of a father who has several children . One of them brings shame on the family because of some evil he indulges in . The father feels that he has no option but to disinherit his son , banish him from the family , and hand him over to the authorities to suffer due punishment .

Now at the same time the father does something very extraordinary . He turns towards his other children and tells them that because of the wrong-doing of their brother they too are being disinherited , banished from the family , and will suffer the same punishment as their brother , even though it was the brother and not themselves who had sinned .

[/quote]

There were no other children. A&E got booted out of the Garden and we are offspring of parents who no longer has club membership in God's family. So what ever state that A&E found themselves in, it stays that way through the family tree UNLESS the descendants decided that they want club membership as well. Well, Christ has repaired the bridge that connects the outside world to his Father's house. We only need to cross it. What are you waiting for? Are you going to wait for a million answers before you fill in the membership form and start the journey across the bridge? Or will you multitask and submit the membership form, start the journey while seeking for answers along the way?


#12

Adam and Eve enjoyed these preternatural gifts:

[LIST=1]
*] The whole human race stems from one single human pair. (Sent. certa.)
*] Man consists of two essential parts--a material body and a spiritual soul. (De fide.)
*] The rational soul is per se the essential form of the body. (De fide.)
*] Every human being possesses an individual soul. (De fide.)
*] Every individual soul was immediately created out of nothing by God. (Sent. Certa.)
*] A creature has the capacity to receive supernatural gifts. (Sent. communis.)
*] The Supernatural presupposes Nature. (Sent communis.)
*] God has conferred on man a supernatural Destiny. (De fide.)
*] Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace. (De fide.)
*] The donum rectitudinis or integritatis in the narrower sense, i.e., the freedom from irregular desire. (Sent. fidei proxima.)
*] The donum immortalitatis, i.e.,bodily immortality. (De fide.)
*] The donum impassibilitatis, i.e., the freedom from suffering. (Sent. communis.)
*] The donum scientiae, i.e., a knowledge of natural and supernatural truths infused by God. (Sent. communis.)
*] Adam received sanctifying grace not merely for himself, but for all his posterity. (Sent. certa.)
*] Our first parents in paradise sinned grievously through transgression of the Divine probationary commandment. (De fide.)
*] Through the sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God. (De fide.)
*] Our first parents became subject to death and to the dominion of the Devil. (De fide.) D788.
*] Adam's sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation, but by descent. (De fide.)
*] Original Sin consists in the deprivation of grace caused by the free act of sin committed by the head of the race. (Sent. communis.)
*] Original sin is transmitted by natural generation. (De fide.)
*] In the state of original sin man is deprived of sanctifying grace and all that this implies, as well as of the preternatural gifts of integrity. (De fide in regard to Sanctifying Grace and the Donum Immortalitatus. D788 et seq.)
[/LIST]
When they were revoked from Adam and Eve it is easy to see how their children didn't have them.


#13

[quote="ProdglArchitect, post:6, topic:320387"]
Becuase, through their act they cut off ties with God. If they are no longer directly and fully tied to God, they have no way of siring children which are fully connected to God.

[/quote]

Is that not to put limits on God for whom , according to the Scriptures , all things are possible ?

Through sin Adam and Eve , as you word it , cut of their ties with God .

God could have created their children fully connected to him , and not having to suffer the consequences of a sin they had not committed .


#14

I will ask this question back. Why did Christ leave heaven to take on flesh, know hunger and cold and live with sinners, have to die such a horrible death on a Cross so that I can have heaven opened to me? I did nothing to deserve that.


#15

=arkwright;10542232]I put a question similar to this on the Ask an Apologist section and received a poor answer .

This is a question that has troubled me for quite a while , but is now troubling me seriously .

Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their sin . They were expelled from the garden to live in a world where they suffered and eventually died .

My question is why do we have to suffer the consequences of the sin of Adam and Eve when we played no part in their sin ?

Think of a father who has several children . One of them brings shame on the family because of some evil he indulges in . The father feels that he has no option but to disinherit his son , banish him from the family , and hand him over to the authorities to suffer due punishment"

Isa. 55: 6-11"Seek the LORD while he may be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.*** For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts"***

Isa.45: 9 "Woe to him who strives with his Maker, an earthen vessel with the potter!
Does the clay say to him who fashions it, What are you making'? orYour work has no handles'?”

*Isa.29: 16 *” You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay; that the thing made should say of its maker, "He did not make me"; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?

Isa.64: 8 “Yet, O LORD, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou art our potter; we are all the work of thy hand.”

IMO:) My friend your asking the wrong question and looing at it from "bottom up- not TOP Down"

IT'S not that God HAD to; but that God's Devine Nature saw such an act as befitting the crime. Nothing in life is "free". God has every RIGHT as our Creator to demand certian things from us.

Consider God did not HAVE TO Create humanity al all:rolleyes:

Now at the same time the father does something very extraordinary . He turns towards his other children and tells them that because of the wrong-doing of their brother they too are being disinherited , banished from the family , and will suffer the same punishment as their brother , even though it was the brother and not themselves who had sinned .

Now surely we would all see this father as unjust and cruel , lacking in love .

But is this not how God has treated all human beings who have lived since the time of Adam and Eve ?

Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their disobedience . But the extraordinary thing is that God has made every other human being since Adam and Eve accept the consequences of a sin which was not theirs .

Why should we live in a vale of tears , ending in death , because of a sin we never committed ?

This troubles me seriously , and seems to be leading me to a point where I have to make a decision as to whether in all conscience I can carry on believing .

Any help will be gratefully received . I thank you in anticipation .

***YOU seem to forget that God OFFERS a very easy way to corect what He ses as Justice and you see as mean, evil, bad and nasty. BAPTISM; Christian Baptism makes one NEW and perfect [until we screw up again].

IF one chooses death that is what God gives to them. IT"SMANS" choice; God ONLY affirms what we have decided our eternity shll be. Amen!***

Here's what God DESIRES
Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live"

And Here is What Devine Justice DEMANDS

Ecclesiasticus 15:18 "Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him"

So we decide; what's your choice:shrug:


#16

Not sure of the question.

If you were not born you would have no chance for heaven. Being born is a gift that gives you away to enjoy infinity with God. You don’t think heaven should be open to you?


#17

[quote="arkwright, post:1, topic:320387"]
I put a question similar to this on the Ask an Apologist section and received a poor answer .

This is a question that has troubled me for quite a while , but is now troubling me seriously .

Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their sin . They were expelled from the garden to live in a world where they suffered and eventually died .

My question is why do we have to suffer the consequences of the sin of Adam and Eve when we played no part in their sin ?

Think of a father who has several children . One of them brings shame on the family because of some evil he indulges in . The father feels that he has no option but to disinherit his son , banish him from the family , and hand him over to the authorities to suffer due punishment .

Now at the same time the father does something very extraordinary . He turns towards his other children and tells them that because of the wrong-doing of their brother they too are being disinherited , banished from the family , and will suffer the same punishment as their brother , even though it was the brother and not themselves who had sinned .

Now surely we would all see this father as unjust and cruel , lacking in love .

But is this not how God has treated all human beings who have lived since the time of Adam and Eve ?
Adam and Eve sinned . They had to accept the consequences of their disobedience . But the extraordinary thing is that God has made every other human being since Adam and Eve accept the consequences of a sin which was not theirs .

Why should we live in a vale of tears , ending in death , because of a sin we never committed ?

This troubles me seriously , and seems to be leading me to a point where I have to make a decision as to whether in all conscience I can carry on believing .

Any help will be gratefully received . I thank you in anticipation .

[/quote]

We have the use of gifts we inherit, our minds, our health, our abilities, our temperaments. We had nothing to do with any of these either, but we enjoy the use of all the gifts we have. But what did we do to deserve them? Nothing at all. Everything we are & everything we have is God's gift.

But we inherited sin from the decision of the parents' of us all. We can't detach that defect, that deprivation, from the very gift of being, by ourselves. And none of us would dare say that we ONLY have to deal with the inheritance of sin, and that we have not ourselves sinned with a ready will, freely, unless through grace we managed to preserve the restored innocence granted us in the regenerating waters of baptism.

The faith that teaches that we are born with the ancestral sin is also the one that gives us the means to remedy the effects. The two are one package. If you were to decide that the teaching is so unjust that you can't believe, you'll still have to deal with all the sins & terrors around you & in you; and the attempt to act on the assertion that we're born innocent will make no difference, to others' lives, or to your own.


#18

[quote="arkwright, post:13, topic:320387"]
Is that not to put limits on God for whom , according to the Scriptures , all things are possible ?

Through sin Adam and Eve , as you word it , cut of their ties with God .

God could have created their children fully connected to him , and not having to suffer the consequences of a sin they had not committed .

[/quote]

Why should he have? I don't mean to make it sound cruel, but what obligation did he have to do so? Adam and Eve rejected him even with full knowledge of Him. In my estimation, we're lucky he didn't just wipe us out; and it's absolutely incredible that he instead chose to redeem us. I really, really think you're focused on the wrong things here. Focus on the fact that God chose to save us, not that we screwed it up.

God also could have chosen to create us without free will, then none of this would have been an issue; but then, we wouldn't be what we are today. You are trying to understand God who, by his nature, is completely outside of our realm of comprehension. Essentially, based on the answer I think you're looking for, you will never be satisfied, because we simply cannot know until we're dead and we (hopefully) get to ask him in person.


#19

[quote=ProdglArchitect;1054434 You are trying to understand God who, by his nature, is completely outside of our realm of comprehension..
[/QUOTE]

Is that not a form of agnosticism ?
[/quote]


#20

[quote="arkwright, post:19, topic:320387"]
Is that not a form of agnosticism ?

[/quote]

No, agnosticism is saying that we can't know if there is a God, so why worry about it. I'm saying that we know there's a God, we simply cannot fathom Him or his motives. Have you ever actually tried to comprehend God? An absolutely eternal, absolutely good, infinitely loving, infinitely powerful entity, who chose to create us even though we can offer him nothing, and constantly reject him through our actions. I can understand it on a cursory level, but anything deeper blows my mind.

You are attempting to assign motive to an entity that we can barely even scratch the surface of. That's like an ant trying to figure out why Jupiter has the orbit it does. it's simply beyond the ant's comprehension. it can know Jupiter exists, and it can know it has an orbit, but it can never fully grasp its scale or meaning.

We can't know WHY God did what he did , all we know is that he did, and that he has a reason.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.