Africa’s deadly backroom abortions

theglobeandmail.com/news/world/g8-g20/africa/africas-deadly-backroom-abortions/article1564162/

'Abortion is strictly outlawed in Tanzania in virtually all circumstances. The word itself is taboo, rarely spoken in polite society. Yet it takes only a few minutes to find a man in the backroom of a slum neighbourhood pharmacy who is quite willing to perform an illegal abortion.

…More than 90 per cent of Africans live in countries where abortion is restricted. Abortion is completely prohibited in 14 African countries, and in most others it is permitted only to preserve the life or physical health of the woman. As a result, virtually all of the estimated 5.6 million abortions performed annually in Africa are unsafe. Only about 100,000 are done by properly trained professionals in a safe environment, according to a report last year by the Guttmacher Institute, an advocacy organization for sexual and reproductive health.

“Making abortion legal, safe and accessible does not appreciably increase demand,” the Lancet study concluded. “Instead, the principal effect is shifting previously clandestine, unsafe procedures to legal and safe ones.”

Why is it then that maternal death rates in the west are lowest in those countries which restrict abortion, such as Ireland and Poland?
For example, compare Ireland’s 5 deaths per 100,000 births with the USA’s 17 deaths per 100,000 births (UN Population Division, World Mortality Report, 2005)
In any case, something that is wrong should not be made legal in order to make it safer. For example, female genital mutilation would be safer if performed by doctors, but that does not justify its legalization.

substitute the words “murder” or “drug-dealing” for “abortion” and see how much sense the statement makes.

Murder/drug-dealing is strictly outlawed in most African countries under any circumstances, yet it takes only a few minutes to find someone to do it, therefore we need to make murder/drug-dealing safe and legal. People are going to murder/deal drugs any how.

The statement is nonsense. If as the lawmakers of those countries wisely conclude that abortion, like murder and drug-dealing, is an affront to the rights and dignity of its people, then it outlaws those crimes, and what is more, enforces the law to its fullest extent, and punishes the perpetrators (not the victims).

From Confessions of an Abortionist: We aroused enough sympathy to sell our program of permissive abortion by fabricating the number of illegal abortions done annually in the U.S. The actual figure was approaching 100,000 but the figure we gave to the media repeatedly was 1,000,000. Repeating the big lie often enough convinces the public. The number of women dying from illegal abortions was around 200-250 annually. The** figure we constantly fed to the media ** was 10,000. These false figures took root in the consciousness of Americans convincing many that we needed to crack the abortion law. Another myth we fed to the public through the media was that legalising abortion would only mean that the abortions taking place illegally would then be done legally.

And the beat goes on…

Quotes from the OP's linked article in blue

Anybody remember this statement... ? Just substitute some of our Western world country names for "Kenya" :

"In Kenya, for example, the country’s new constitution would prohibit abortions in any circumstance except when a woman’s life is in danger."

This was supposed to be the premise for abortions in North America – a premise which quickly finds itself relegated to much broader interpretation, where a woman's psychological well-being is enough to warrant an abortion ; further evolving into justification that it is simply “ not convenient” for the mother to have the child.

The same kind of distortion which the landmark decision of Roe vs Wade was based on ; which incidentally was not factual but based on lies:

wcofc.org/articles/abortion.htm

Subsequently, (also reported by the Guttmacher Institute) about 24% of all pregnancies in the United States now end in abortion ... and the percentile is even higher here in Canada (where the Globe and Mail is published) .But the figures are shrouded here – one has to do a little more research to get to the truth.

From their perspective, the little ones in the womb who are yet to be born in North America , would say in response to , “Of the 20 most dangerous countries for women to give birth in, all but one (Afghanistan) are in Africa”, those words apply much more aptly to the US and Canada than any developing countries.

To put it into perspective : In 2008, my country (Canada) [through some slight of hand by the Governor General’s office – which can operate independently from the Prime Minister’s office on particular matters] awarded its highest civilian honour The Order of Canada to Henry Morgentaler- a pioneer in abortion here; commending him for work in a field which I believe they conveniently termed as "reproductive health alternatives for women".

cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/10/10/morgentaler-order.html?ref=rss

:ehh:... Gimme a break !!... You see, here in Canada the word “abortion itself is also taboo”, and “rarely spoken in polite society” because when we do say it , people accuse us of being intolerant and prejudiced and threaten to take their case to a human rights tribunal. Abortion here (in Canada over 2,000 per week- as reported by the Catolic Register roughly 10 years ago) and our government’s approach to it is the only thing which I can truly say makes me ashamed to be Canadian.

It should be obvious to anyone reading the linked article that its author - Geoffrey York is writing with a particular pro-abortion bent ... and he quotes the Lancet as his bible : York’s claim that “Canada and the other G8 countries should be challenging the ban on abortion in many developing countries, rather than tacitly supporting it” , is probably a reaction to our present prime minister’s efforts to keep this subject off the table. He’s trying to make a stand but the opposition and the existing laws are applying a lot of heat on him.
canada.com/news/Firm+given+abortion+Harper+health+initiative/2953580/story.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canwest%2FF56+(canada.com+Top+Stories)

If that weren’t enough, more than a month before our prime minister made his statement, the one who wishes to be Canada’s next prime minister, started to rant how Canada should be exporting its abortion technology to Africa ... very good article here :
russ-campbell.blogspot.com/2010/02/ignatieff-shills-for-pro-abortion-lobby.html

If only Canada were tacitly supporting an abortion ban in other countries (maybe the salmon would eventually swim back upstream...), but the stark reality is that our present prime minister, when he came into power, inherited a largely pro-abortion government and
most of our politicians think (or claim publicly anyway) that abortion is a "good" thing. And sex-selective abortions appear to be the next phase of this scourge : nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2007/09_15/4_policy_politics02_15.html

We need to continue to pray...

[quote=“Natural Family”]Why is it then that maternal death rates in the west are lowest in those countries which restrict abortion, such as Ireland and Poland?
For example, compare Ireland’s 5 deaths per 100,000 births with the USA’s 17 deaths per 100,000 births (UN Population Division, World Mortality Report, 2005)
[/quote]

I fail to see how abortions are directly linked to infant mortality since they aren’t included in the mortality numbers. The US has the second worst infant mortality rate in the 1st world world but there are a number of causes for this.

In any case, something that is wrong should not be made legal in order to make it safer. For example, female genital mutilation would be safer if performed by doctors, but that does not justify its legalization.

That’s because women aren’t going around saying “I think I’d like to have my genitals mutilated beyond recognition”! The fact of the matter is, people are going to get abortions whether they are legal or not, just like people are going to keep have pre-marital sex just like they have since the dawn of man, making something illegal isn’t going to stop it if there’s a demand for it. Whether you like it or not, legalizing abortion makes it safer for the woman. Whether it’s illegal or not it’s still going to get done if she’s determined enough. This way they don’t need to do it in a secret back room somewhere or take a bunch of pills to induce a miscarriage. This is just the reality we all live in and people aren’t going to just stop having abortions.

[quote="j1akey, post:6, topic:197983"]
This is just the reality we all live in and people aren't going to just stop having abortions.

[/quote]

No. People are not going to stop all sorts of murder. It doesn't make it right.

As documented above, this is the EXACT same plyabook of lies that the abortionists used to establish their industry in America. Dr. Nathanson (who was THERE, and part of it) now fully admits that they utterly fabricated their numbers of illegal abortions in pre-Roe America.

The facts are that the number of abortions in America grew dramatically in America afters its legalization and normalization here. Duh. It amazes me that people actually make the argument that promiscuity didn’t increase when contraception became socially acceptable as well.

Have BOTH existed since very soon after Original Sin? Of course! But when you embark upon a massive public relations effort to declare something that has ALWAYS been considered BAD to be GOOD, do you REALLY think people are so stupid that you can tell them in the next breath that this change in attitude won’t result in an increase in the subject behavior? Seriously??

So if we declared cheating on spelling tests to no longer be immoral, we’d not see an increase in cheaters in schools? What planet are you from?

If these people really cared about women in particular and humanity in general, they’d seek to get the word out about how dangerous abortion of any kind is. The baby dies in 100% of them, after all and women are regularly left sterile, still get septic shock infections and often are coerced into abortion by abusive men. Abortion is a far greater boon to abusive men than it will ever be to women.

Based upon the assumption that abortion is murder, based upon the assumption that a fetus is a person. That being said, about 1/3 of people (in the US) completely support abortion, 1/3 (in the US) support it but feel it needs stricter regulations and provisions, and 1/3 (in the US) do not support it at all. What does this say about the prevailing ideas of abortion (in the US)?

These women should have the freedom to do what is necessary. The issue is why are these women needing abortions?

Since one of the arguments for legalizing abortion is that they will be used to save the lives of mothers, maternal death rates (which refers to the death of the mother rather than of the baby) are indeed material.

That’s because women aren’t going around saying “I think I’d like to have my genitals mutilated beyond recognition”! The fact of the matter is, people are going to get abortions whether they are legal or not, just like people are going to keep have pre-marital sex just like they have since the dawn of man, making something illegal isn’t going to stop it if there’s a demand for it. Whether you like it or not, legalizing abortion makes it safer for the woman. Whether it’s illegal or not it’s still going to get done if she’s determined enough. This way they don’t need to do it in a secret back room somewhere or take a bunch of pills to induce a miscarriage. This is just the reality we all live in and people aren’t going to just stop having abortions.

Women did not have so many abortions before abortion was legalized. After it was legalized, the rate went up 10- or 15-fold. In addition, the rate of illegitimacy went up as well.

So, yes, the legality of abortion makes a change in how women act. Were abortion to become illegal again, women would adjust to that reality–not all women, but many.

I would have to disagree with you on this point. AFAIK banning abortion does not lessen the number news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8305217.stm Why would you think otherwise? Is there an example of some nation that reflects that belief?

This sounds so familiar… didn’t we already have this discussion? And didn’t I point out that in Poland, where abortion had been legal and was made illegal, that the abortion rate had *seriously *declined?

Peace be with you,

I too am Canadian and apalled with what I just learned when I read one of your links; this stood out for me:

“At the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women meeting in March, **Canada helped force the withdrawal of a US-sponsored resolution against sex-selective abortion. “The bottom line was that some countries, including Canada, didn’t want to put any limits on abortion,” **says former George H W Bush speechwriter and Christian activist Janice Shaw Crause, who attended the UN meeting.”

However there are some caring Canadians out there who are fighting for the rights of the unborn; they are a non-denominational, non-profit organization called ‘Campaign For Life’. They have representatives across the nation in every province. Please check out their website and become a supporter/member in any way you can. They need people like us for the cause.

For everyone else please visit the site and scroll down to see video footage of an amazing 12 year old girl named **Lia Mills **who gives a speech about abortion. She won a contest at her school in debate and wrote about this subject of her own free will. The school pressured her to withdraw on the subject but she refused. IF only adults can do the same.

campaignlifecoalition.com/

God Bless and pray together for the unborn. The Angelus 3x/day.

[quote="j1akey, post:6, topic:197983"]
The fact of the matter is, people are going to get abortions whether they are legal or not, .

[/quote]

The same could be said for rape. Should that be made legal too?

—Quote— from Natural Family
In any case, something that is wrong should not be made legal in order to make it safer. For example, female genital mutilation would be safer if performed by doctors, but that does not justify its legalization.
—End Quote—
—Quote— from j1akey
That’s because women aren’t going around saying “I think I’d like to have my genitals mutilated beyond recognition”!
—End Quote—

Well, strangely enough, in many parts of Africa (and among some migrants here in the west), there are many people (most of them women) illegally mutilating the genitals of little girls for traditional reasons. There are some who advocate for doctors to be allowed to perform these operations (because they are going to do it anyway and it would be safer performed by medical professionals). Like the infants destroyed in their mothers’ wombs by abortion, these little girls (over 3 million every year) are not given a choice.
Some choices that people make are so abominable that they must remain illegal. “Harm minimisation” does not work whether it’s applied to abortion, fgm, drugs …
The numbers of people engaging in illegal behaviour escalates once the law sanctions it and the harm it does escalates too.
That is why fewer women die when abortion is restricted.
As previously mentioned the numbers of women dying during, and immediately following, pregnancy are much lower in countries where abortion is restricted. In the year following abortion, the rates of death, suicide, depression, mental illness, miscarriage and substance abuse are also much higher than for women in the year following birth.

Excellent point!

PS: if you want to quote 1 post, just hit the Quote button at the lower right-hand corner. If you want to quote more than one post, hit the + sign next to the Quote button of each post you want to quote, then the Quote button of one of them. They seem to come in reverse order for me, but you can cut and paste.

Also, if you want to break into a quoted post to comment, just put */quote] without the asterix! where you want the post to end, then write your comments and to resume the quote, put in *quote] without the asterix!

[quote="Brendan, post:14, topic:197983"]
The same could be said for rape. Should that be made legal too?

[/quote]

Apparently I'm seeing a distinction between rape and abortion that you do not. First of all rape is not a medical procedure...actually just forget it, I could go on forever but I already know what I say will fall on deaf ears anyway.

If someone has some actual numbers, please post so that we can have a dicussion that is not emotionally based.

Not you and me specifically, but yes this has been discussed before.

It’s certainly a possibility. Now, does that make Poland an outlier? Why did it succeed in Poland but fail in Sub-saharan African regions?

Sure thing :wink:

Here are some numbers from my previous post re-written in a different article: guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/10/4/gpr100402.html

More of the same but easier to interpret: infoplease.com/science/health/global-abortion-rates.html

Here’s some info on public opinion (verify the citation if needed): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Public_opinion

Here’s a chart showing some of the reasons for abortion: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AGIAbortionReasonsBarChart.png

Here is that picture unrolled in text with more info: guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2411798.html (i’d be interested to see if Poland had dealt with the reasons for abortion as laid forth by this article, thus causing a decrease in rate regardless of law)

If anyone has more please post :slight_smile:

Reviewing Poland: After reviewing the statistics johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-poland.html I’m not sure Poland is a success candidate for banning of abortions significantly decreases the rate. The strictest regulation was in 1932, an outright ban. After that, abortion was legal for medical reasons. Then in 1956 abortion became legal for women in difficult living conditions. Then in 1993, strict regulation cropped up again making abortions only legal if the health of the mother was at risk. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Poland) ( pewforum.org/Abortion/Abortion-Laws-Around-the-World.aspx) Looking at the first link, the rate of abortions significantly decreased between 1985 and 1993, before the stronger regulations. I suspected that economic wealth might be a factor, but the results were not what I expected google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:POL&dl=en&hl=en&q=poland+gdp

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