After the homily?


#1

If a priest gives the homily...can someone speak after him?

There are those I know who insist it was not right but I don't know about that. The priest gave the homily..yes a homily..not a sermon...he didn't really shorten it at all..and it was a good one.

After that was a short appeal for the capital campaign which I believe that was placed there as then the pledge forms could be collected with the collection. I don't feel that the Mass was really disrupted.

But there are those I know who think this was an abuse. I think it would have been if the priest had not given his homily and this was in place of that...which it was not.


#2

It is not an abuse.
Permitted!


#3

[quote="Annabelle_Marie, post:1, topic:287801"]
If a priest gives the homily...can someone speak after him?

There are those I know who insist it was not right but I don't know about that. The priest gave the homily..yes a homily..not a sermon...he didn't really shorten it at all..and it was a good one.

After that was a short appeal for the capital campaign which I believe that was placed there as then the pledge forms could be collected with the collection. I don't feel that the Mass was really disrupted.

But there are those I know who think this was an abuse. I think it would have been if the priest had not given his homily and this was in place of that...which it was not.

[/quote]

I agree. It was not an abuse.


#4

Technically, it is.

Since the announcement is not a homily, nor is it the Creed, it should not have been placed between the Homily and the Creed. There is no provision for something other than a brief period of silence, and then the Creed, the follow the homily.

As such, anyone, clergy or lay, is prohibitied from adding such to the liturgy.

The GIRM specifies that announcements, which this would include, are to be done after Holy Communion and before the Final Blessing

  1. The Concluding Rites consist of:
  2. brief announcements, if they are necessary;
  3. the priest’s greeting and blessing...

Another time where this could be included is at the beginning of Mass,

  1. When the Entrance chant is concluded, the priest stands at the chair and, together with the whole gathering, makes the Sign of the Cross. Then he signifies the presence of the Lord to the community gathered there by means of the Greeting. By this Greeting and the people’s response, the mystery of the Church gathered together is made manifest.

After the greeting of the people, the priest, the deacon, or a lay minister may very briefly introduce the faithful to the Mass of the day.

It would be a bit of a stretch to state make that type of announcement, but there are no real Canonical restrictions on how the Mass of the day may be introduced.

There would always be the time BEFORE Mass starts as well. That time frame is unregulated, as it is outside the liturgy.

So the abuse was not a layperson giving, or appear to give, a homily, but rather the addition of a element into the liturgy where none is called for.
That is actually prohibited.


#5

[quote="Brendan, post:4, topic:287801"]
Technically, it is.

Since the announcement is not a homily, nor is it the Creed, it should not have been placed between the Homily and the Creed. There is no provision for something other than a brief period of silence, and then the Creed, the follow the homily.

As such, anyone, clergy or lay, is prohibitied from adding such to the liturgy.

The GIRM specifies that announcements, which this would include, are to be done after Holy Communion and before the Final Blessing

Another time where this could be included is at the beginning of Mass,

It would be a bit of a stretch to state make that type of announcement, but there are no real Canonical restrictions on how the Mass of the day may be introduced.

There would always be the time BEFORE Mass starts as well. That time frame is unregulated, as it is outside the liturgy.

So the abuse was not a layperson giving, or appear to give, a homily, but rather the addition of a element into the liturgy where none is called for.
That is actually prohibited.

[/quote]

It wasn't an announcement that could have been done at the end...it was filling out a pledge form....much like when there is a mission.


#6

The campaign appeal and pledge forms could have been done after the prayers of the faithful but before the collection. However, If it was the capital campaign for the parish your pastor approved it. If it was the capital campaign for the diocese the Bishop approved it. Either way it can be argued that it was the second half of Father's two-part homily so was appropriate to be said where it was. Parish business at either the Pastor's or Bishop's directive. No big deal. No abuse.


#7

[quote="Brendan, post:4, topic:287801"]
Technically, it is.

Since the announcement is not a homily, nor is it the Creed, it should not have been placed between the Homily and the Creed. There is no provision for something other than a brief period of silence, and then the Creed, the follow the homily.

As such, anyone, clergy or lay, is prohibitied from adding such to the liturgy.

The GIRM specifies that announcements, which this would include, are to be done after Holy Communion and before the Final Blessing

Another time where this could be included is at the beginning of Mass,

It would be a bit of a stretch to state make that type of announcement, but there are no real Canonical restrictions on how the Mass of the day may be introduced.

There would always be the time BEFORE Mass starts as well. That time frame is unregulated, as it is outside the liturgy.

So the abuse was not a layperson giving, or appear to give, a homily, but rather the addition of a element into the liturgy where none is called for.
That is actually prohibited.

[/quote]

There is no, I repeat no Prohibition from speaking after the Homily regardless of your
interpretation.
Adding to the liturgy is nonsense in this case.
We must not make up rules to suit our position as is common practise on this forum.
The laity cannot give the Homily yet are permitted to speak after the Homily, after Communion, and also after the mass.


#8

[quote="TheDoctor, post:6, topic:287801"]
The campaign appeal and pledge forms could have been done after the prayers of the faithful but before the collection. However, If it was the capital campaign for the parish your pastor approved it. If it was the capital campaign for the diocese the Bishop approved it. ** Either way it can be argued that it was the second half of Father's two-part homily **so was appropriate to be said where it was. Parish business at either the Pastor's or Bishop's directive. No big deal. No abuse.

[/quote]

If it considered to be part of the homily, then a layman should not have given that. It falls to the priest or deacon to do so.

The GIRM is very clear.

After the homily comes a period of silence ( GIRM 66) and then Creed (GIRM 67)

This was neither.

If the bishop wished to direct a change in the order of the Mass, that would involve him applying for an indult from the CDWDS to do that.

In which case, it could have been given just prior to the beginning of Mass, or technically, just after the Sign of the Cross that begins Mass.

There have been times at our parish when a second collection would be taken up to support mission activities, or to inform the parishioners that collection cards for the annual Archidiocean appeal would be taken up. Those are done just before the start of Mass.

In that way, no indults or additions to the Order of the Mass are required.


#9

I agree with Brendan. However, at particular parishes maybe a lot of parishoners come late and leave early - pastor may have felt that was the best time to make an appeal for something that had to be done.


#10

The proper place for announcements or other “speakers” is at the end of Mass, after the prayer after communion. That is when announcements are to be done.


#11

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=415164

Ah-ha...I found this! What does everyone think of this?

And yes..in this case it is true....it happened at all 3 Masses....it is very unusual...and unfortunetly yes...especially on Sat....a large number of people have left after communion...despite repeated talks about that from the pulpit....


#12

Recently, we had a missions appeal for a community our parish supports. It was given by a layman before the start of Mass. Other announcements are done at that time as well.

When there have been diocesan campaigns, the homily time may include a video or audio recording of the bishop’s appeal. But otherwise, the other “extracurricular” stuff occurs before Mass or with a short “reminder” at the end.

I wonder if this varies somewhat from diocese to diocese based on their own norms, which may be tightening up.


#13

Well…it appears from the apologist answer that this is NOT an abuse…(which is what I thought).

If this was a regular occurrence it might be a little different. this is the only time it has happened. Unfortunetly before or after Mass will not get everyone…:frowning:


#14

[edited . . . .]


#15

[quote="Stylites, post:14, topic:287801"]
[edited . . . .]

[/quote]

??????


#16

Are you talking about something you heard on the radio? If so, please elaborate.

I don’t see any problem with the priest doing this as part of his homily (except that I don’t like it). The homilist basically has free reign to determine the topic and how that topic will be presented to somehow relate to scripture and Church teaching. However, there shouldn’t be a non-cleric interloper sharing that part of the mass.


#17

[quote="Brendan, post:8, topic:287801"]
If it considered to be part of the homily, then a layman should not have given that. It falls to the priest or deacon to do so.

The GIRM is very clear.

After the homily comes a period of silence ( GIRM 66) and then Creed (GIRM 67)

This was neither.

If the bishop wished to direct a change in the order of the Mass, that would involve him applying for an indult from the CDWDS to do that..

[/quote]

Sorry, I missed where the OP said it was not a Priest. Did the OP say it was not a Deacon or another Priest but a lay person???


#18

[quote="Digitonomy, post:16, topic:287801"]
Are you talking about something you heard on the radio? If so, please elaborate.

I don't see any problem with the priest doing this as part of his homily (except that I don't like it). The homilist basically has free reign to determine the topic and how that topic will be presented to somehow relate to scripture and Church teaching. However, there shouldn't be a non-cleric interloper sharing that part of the mass.

[/quote]

From the link on #11...I had the question but then answers posted were confusing so I did a search.

The priest did give the homily...and then the lay person came up for the capital campaign.

It is unusual...but fact of the matter is...people do leave right after communion....:shrug: doin it at the end isn't going to catch everyone.


#19

[quote="Annabelle_Marie, post:1, topic:287801"]
If a priest gives the homily...can someone speak after him?

There are those I know who insist it was not right but I don't know about that. The priest gave the homily..yes a homily..not a sermon...he didn't really shorten it at all..and it was a good one.

After that was a short appeal for the capital campaign which I believe that was placed there as then the pledge forms could be collected with the collection. I don't feel that the Mass was really disrupted.

But there are those I know who think this was an abuse. I think it would have been if the priest had not given his homily and this was in place of that...which it was not.

[/quote]

Announcements are to be done after the Prayers After Communion. Unless the priest makes the plea himself, or another ordained man speaks, the time for homily is the time for someone ordained to speak.


#20

[quote="Annabelle_Marie, post:18, topic:287801"]

It is unusual...but fact of the matter is...people do leave right after communion....:shrug: doin it at the end isn't going to catch everyone.

[/quote]

Makes sense, but it still ruins the order of the Mass.


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